First time with REW, I need help

[YurtVonnegud]

Greetings,

I bought my first sound system couple months ago and I really like it but nearly everyone said Room Correction is a must. So, I'm trying to do it but I don't know if I did correct REW tests and I don't know what to do next? I've attached my test results and my test setup. "end" Files are most comparable to daily listening position but they are closer to chair compared to "final" setup. Last image on the post is "final" setup. I put bathrobe on chair to absorb waves because, Gemini said it

My equipments are ELAC DBR62s, Fosi Audio V3, Audio-Technica AT4022 and Focusrite Scarlett Solo Gen4

Thanks

edit: I tested up to 1500hz at first because AT4022 is showing unstable signs in the factsheet after 1500hz. Floor test is up to 1500 hz.

 

[alex-z]

You are supposed to load a calibration file to account for the frequency response of the microphone.

Keep your measurements in a single .mdat file and label them for easier sharing.

The ear level measurements are the most accurate. Using the elevated mic + absorption reduces reflected energy but that is not how you listen to the speakers.

Overall your responses are not terrible. I would use EQ to pull down the peaks at 130 and 320Hz, and also correct the channel mismatch from 1000-3000Hz.

The remainder of the problems are best solved via physical means. An external subwoofer to provide a more consistent bass response and acoustic treatment on your ceiling and side walls to reduce the peaks/dips occurring in the 100-1000Hz region.

 

[YurtVonnegud]

You are supposed to load a calibration file to account for the frequency response of the microphone.

Keep your measurements in a single .mdat file and label them for easier sharing.

The ear level measurements are the most accurate. Using the elevated mic + absorption reduces reflected energy but that is not how you listen to the speakers.

Overall your responses are not terrible. I would use EQ to pull down the peaks at 130 and 320Hz, and also correct the channel mismatch from 1000-3000Hz.

The remainder of the problems are best solved via physical means. An external subwoofer to provide a more consistent bass response and acoustic treatment on your ceiling and side walls to reduce the peaks/dips occurring in the 100-1000Hz region.

I researched some and did it different EQ's for channels in REW while maintaining same Target dB SPL, as right speaker getting less stable response because of my bed most likely. I'm actually using Logitech Z2300 as a subwoofer without satellites but didn't include it in the tests to give a more accurate result. Maybe I'll change it in future but it's getting the job done for now.

Thank you for helping!

 

[alex-z]

Definitely include the subwoofer in your measurements, both the subwoofer by itself and integrated with the left + right channels.

Bass response accounts for about 30% of subjective sound quality so having consistency below 100Hz is important.

Are you running a proper low-pass on the sub and high-pass on the speakers? A lot of people forget to high-pass the speakers.

 

[YurtVonnegud]

Definitely include the subwoofer in your measurements, both the subwoofer by itself and integrated with the left + right channels.

Bass response accounts for about 30% of subjective sound quality so having consistency below 100Hz is important.

Are you running a proper low-pass on the sub and high-pass on the speakers? A lot of people forget to high-pass the speakers.

Here are tests with sub.

No I don't actually, I like DBR62's little tight basses would it be better if I high pass it?

 

[alex-z]

Yes, a high-pass filter should be applied. This reduces distortion because the woofers in the speakers no longer try to play low frequencies handled by the sub. 80Hz is a good starting point.

The right channel looks better with the sub, output below 90Hz is much stronger.

The left channel looks slightly worse from 65-110Hz. That makes me suspect your subwoofer polarity is incorrect, measure again with the sub inverted.

Please also include a measurement of the raw subwoofer response, no speakers included.

If your subwoofer can be moved around measure at different locations, you want the frequency response at the listening position to have as few large dips as possible.

 

[1066]

If using foam-based acoustic products make sure they are fire resistant.

 

[YurtVonnegud]

Yes, a high-pass filter should be applied. This reduces distortion because the woofers in the speakers no longer try to play low frequencies handled by the sub. 80Hz is a good starting point.

The right channel looks better with the sub, output below 90Hz is much stronger.

The left channel looks slightly worse from 65-110Hz. That makes me suspect your subwoofer polarity is incorrect, measure again with the sub inverted.

Please also include a measurement of the raw subwoofer response, no speakers included.

If your subwoofer can be moved around measure at different locations, you want the frequency response at the listening position to have as few large dips as possible.

I did lots of recording but only 23 left after eliminating ineffective ones, there is file size limit so I've attached subwoofer only and speaker tests which recorded from table (image.jpg), to remove chair's effect completely. I've did "subwoofer-only" tests on the floor, like literally just a isolator under microphone.

Can you check it please? The test names is in Descriptions.

 

[Keith_W]

"Everyone says room correction is a must" is true if you have a normal listening room with a large listening triangle. This is because normal head and body movement does not introduce very much parallax error. For such a small listening triangle, normal head and body movement would introduce a huge amount of parallax error, so much so that a measurement from a single point in space will be meaningless.

I have drawn your head with a yellow circle and potential positions where your head might be when listening to your speakers. You can see that the listening triangle changes considerably depending on whether you lean forward or back, or move from side to side. This will change the measured sound by a lot.

A meaningful measurement has to take into account how you will listen to your setup. There is no point making the measurement look perfect in one arbitrary point in space which is smaller than the width of your head. If you don't believe me, take a measurement at each of the green dots I indicated and compare them.

Personally, I would not be too ambitious with a setup like that. All I would do is an MMM over that area and use it to adjust the level of the sub and leave it at that. I would not worry about peaks and dips in the frequency response unless you can hear an obvious problem, or the peak/dip is consistent across the entire measured area.

 

[YurtVonnegud]

"Everyone says room correction is a must" is true if you have a normal listening room with a large listening triangle. This is because normal head and body movement does not introduce very much parallax error. For such a small listening triangle, normal head and body movement would introduce a huge amount of parallax error, so much so that a measurement from a single point in space will be meaningless.

View attachment 510375

I have drawn your head with a yellow circle and potential positions where your head might be when listening to your speakers. You can see that the listening triangle changes considerably depending on whether you lean forward or back, or move from side to side. This will change the measured sound by a lot.

A meaningful measurement has to take into account how you will listen to your setup. There is no point making the measurement look perfect in one arbitrary point in space which is smaller than the width of your head. If you don't believe me, take a measurement at each of the green dots I indicated and compare them.

Personally, I would not be too ambitious with a setup like that. All I would do is an MMM over that area and use it to adjust the level of the sub and leave it at that. I would not worry about peaks and dips in the frequency response unless you can hear an obvious problem, or the peak/dip is consistent across the entire measured area.

Thank you, I've did take it actually. Actually even the first test based EQ is absolutely game changer for me. I don't know what MMM means though but my room is 10m2 so it's not a big room. I'm doing my best to listen in the same position and positioned my speakers like that.

I don't know how to deal with Subwoofer, if I apply high-pass then it applies to the subwoofer too. I guess I will disconnect sub from Amp and connect directly to my motherboards low freq channel.

Even then, should I do EQ's with tests that includes Sub or only speakers, because they will only affect speakers?

 

[Keith_W]

MMM = Moving Mic Measurement. See this thread.

Re: subwoofer low-pass / speaker high-pass. That also depends. For bookshelf speakers like that, removing freqs below 80Hz is generally a good idea for the reasons mentioned earlier in this thread. Then you will need some kind of XO for your speaker/sub to get them to blend. A digital XO would mean that the speaker and sub have to be on separate channels, which means additional equipment purchases. Like an outboard multichannel DAC or a MiniDSP. I don't think motherboard audio lets you EQ channels separately, but I might be wrong on that one. I don't have a Mobo capable of multichannel output, and I have never experimented.

But more relevant, I don't think it's necessary for you. You would be chasing very marginal improvements. Like I said, you could potentially make the measurement look perfect. But that perfect looking measurement will not be repeatable, and it would not represent reality.

 

[YurtVonnegud]

MMM = Moving Mic Measurement. See this thread.

Re: subwoofer low-pass / speaker high-pass. That also depends. For bookshelf speakers like that, removing freqs below 80Hz is generally a good idea for the reasons mentioned earlier in this thread. Then you will need some kind of XO for your speaker/sub to get them to blend. A digital XO would mean that the speaker and sub have to be on separate channels, which means additional equipment purchases. Like an outboard multichannel DAC or a MiniDSP. I don't think motherboard audio lets you EQ channels separately, but I might be wrong on that one. I don't have a Mobo capable of multichannel output, and I have never experimented.

But more relevant, I don't think it's necessary for you. You would be chasing very marginal improvements. Like I said, you could potentially make the measurement look perfect. But that perfect looking measurement will not be repeatable, and it would not represent reality.

Oh, I shall try MMM tomorrow!

I fixed subwoofer problem, I guess?

Connected Subwoofer to C/Sub channel in motherboard and copied L/R channels into that with EQ-Apo to get audio from Stereo sources and initially separate, this way I can use Sub as a separate channel too if the source has Subwoofer audio channel in it, I was nervous about EQ's on the speaker would effect Sub but no, I've managed to copy first then use EQ it shows 0.1 ms so it should be okay I guess? Low and high passed each while caring for graph to not ruin them while doing these.

I gotta say, yes, I can hear the details more clearer but I liked having some extra direct bass in front of me because DBR is front ported. I don't know what I'm gonna do!

edit: looked it up at XO but is this another name for high-low pass? (aka crossover?)

 

[Keith_W]

Sorry - yes, XO means crossover. LPF = Low-pass filter, HPF = High-pass filter.

Sometimes a HPF is not needed. Your speakers may naturally be "high passed". In that case, just apply the LPF and see what the summation looks like.

 

[alex-z]

I did lots of recording but only 23 left after eliminating ineffective ones, there is file size limit so I've attached subwoofer only and speaker tests which recorded from table (image.jpg), to remove chair's effect completely. I've did "subwoofer-only" tests on the floor, like literally just a isolator under microphone.

Can you check it please? The test names is in Descriptions.

The measurement with the description of "Subwoofer on Left with Off-Axis (Listen Direction)" looks the best overall.

The labels are confusing. Are you keeping the microphone in the listening position and doing 1 measurement per subwoofer location?

Oh, I shall try MMM tomorrow!

I fixed subwoofer problem, I guess?

Connected Subwoofer to C/Sub channel in motherboard and copied L/R channels into that with EQ-Apo to get audio from Stereo sources and initially separate, this way I can use Sub as a separate channel too if the source has Subwoofer audio channel in it, I was nervous about EQ's on the speaker would effect Sub but no, I've managed to copy first then use EQ it shows 0.1 ms so it should be okay I guess? Low and high passed each while caring for graph to not ruin them while doing these.

I gotta say, yes, I can hear the details more clearer but I liked having some extra direct bass in front of me because DBR is front ported. I don't know what I'm gonna do!

edit: looked it up at XO but is this another name for high-low pass? (aka crossover?)

Your crossover + channel setup is mostly correct. Usually having the low-pass and high-pass filter at the same frequency is best. Try 60, 80, and 100Hz to see what produces the best result.

If you find the bass too weak adjust your overall EQ, you generally want to peak around 40-50Hz, then gradually decline towards 200Hz.

I would suggest trying a better subwoofer. Your response is rolling off after 50Hz, a lot of music genres have content below that.

 

[YurtVonnegud]

The measurement with the description of "Subwoofer on Left with Off-Axis (Listen Direction)" looks the best overall.

The labels are confusing. Are you keeping the microphone in the listening position and doing 1 measurement per subwoofer location?


Your crossover + channel setup is mostly correct. Usually having the low-pass and high-pass filter at the same frequency is best. Try 60, 80, and 100Hz to see what produces the best result.

If you find the bass too weak adjust your overall EQ, you generally want to peak around 40-50Hz, then gradually decline towards 200Hz.

I would suggest trying a better subwoofer. Your response is rolling off after 50Hz, a lot of music genres have content below that.

Thanks for your knowledge! Sub is on the left looking at my bed meanwhile mic is looking where I look while sitting, because I don't know most correct test positions I just tried to label as understandable for me as possible.

Like you said, crossover became best after doing all of them at 85 Hz.

Sadly, I don't have enough funds to get a good subwoofer so maybe after saving some bucks Tried to fix with lowering dB and lower the differences between freqs with EQs, it's not amazing but quite better than before, it's not muddy that much anymore.