First time trying to fix a room, all tips welcome

[snakearmpit]

Hi everyone,

I finally got a room for myself and, long story short, after years of headphone use, I got my first pair of speakers. I'm loving them but bass was feeling a bit weird. So I went on to play a frequency sweep just for fun and almost fell off my chair at around 130Hz. I did some reading, got myself a mic, REW, measured it and now I don't know which way to go. I have some budget for room treatment but before reaching out to companies like GIK Acoustics for advice I thought I'd ask you fine folks. I'm no pro btw, in case it's not already obvious. Let me know if I'm not in the right place.

Below are measurements with both speakers on, mic at listening position facing forward. I've also measured the speakers individually and the results are interesting (to me at least) as they don't follow the same curve. The room is not square or rectangular (see below) so I assume that may be why. I can add those too if needed and can share the rew files too. Measurements are easily repeatable and consistent. Let me know if there are other scenarios/configurations I should measure.

A bit more about the setup:
Speakers are Focal Shape 50 (active, near-field). They are on audio acoustics stands on top of my desk, tweeters are at 120cm from ground, same as my ears when I'm sitting upright for listening. Space between them (measured from center of woofer) is 140cm, roughly the same distance to the back of my head when I'm at listening position. Speakers are not ported and are 7cm from the wall, I also tried placing them 20cm from the wall and did not seem to make much difference.

The room is not exactly rectangular, below is a 3D model to scale for reference. I can add pictures too if that helps.
Desk position is my own preference but could move to opposite wall if needed. Listening position is at the black chair. The smaller bookcase can be moved but that larger piece of furniture on the left is fixed.

I wonder if adding a bass trap on the right corner (where the lamp is) and a standing bass trap between the desk and the wardrobe on the right (since I can't add a corner trap there) would make any difference. Or pulling the desk back and adding treatment to that wall right behind the speakers? Anyway just random ideas. Let me know what you think. Is there hope to fix that 100-250Hz range?

Thanks in advance for any and all advice and please let me know if I should add any more info here.

 

[RayDunzl]

I'd first use EQ to cut the peak.

 

[Wes]

put dimensions on the diagram

what does it sound like? is it bright, etc.?

 

[Tim Link]

Can you save the REW file and then post it? It will provide much more information than just the screen shot of frequency response. These peaks and dips are pretty narrow so on average it might not sound too bad.

 

[abdo123]

What you first need to deal with is the fact that your speakers are too close to the backwall. (And a little bit to the sidewall too)


There are obvious dips in 150-300 Hz that are caused by cancelations. EQ will not help with that.

Is it possible to flush mount the speakers onto the wall? Or perhaps getting 10-15 cm thick absorption panels behind them?

 

[snakearmpit]

thanks guys,

The REW file is too large to attach, you can download it here:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AmjAwKAGUqpLh8hmuCugvqFrOv0v4w?e=n48ffJ

Below is a top view with measurements, you can play around with the model here:
https://www.roomle.com/t/planner?mode=3D&id=5vhj1yh6nkrdodtgivw4ukvijfg9rux&shared=1

The sound is not too bright, the lows just sound muddy and louder than they should (compared to what I know from the headphones). Example track that brings out the problem: Emma Ruth Rundle, Marked for Death.

The problem with mounting them flush with the wall is they are toed in. I can get them closer to the wall but only one corner would be touching the wall. Yes, I can bring the desk back up to 30-40 cm if needed to fit some panels on that wall.

 

[abdo123]

A little bit of math, your speakers are 24 cm deep, 7 cm away from the wall would mean a total distance of 31cm.

you will have a dip when that distance is 1/4 wavelength, which is ~280 Hz (also 560 Hz, 1120 Hz .etc with diminishing effect) and you will have a peak at that distance at 1/2 wavelength which is ~580 Hz.

20 cm away from the wall would mean a total distance of 44cm, which means you will have a dip at 200, 400, 800 Hz. and a peak at ~390Hz.

 

[abdo123]

that peak at 130 Hz is because of your side wall (your right side while you're sitting).

you're roughly 130cm away from the side wall, 1/2 wave length would be 130 Hz.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

I am mot an expert. Frequency responses Measurements are function of listening position, especially in the bass.
you seem to be seated in the middle of the room:
Two suggestions for now:
Find ways to have the speakers at least 30 cm from the walls all directions.
Move your listening positions a good meter back

Measure and report.
Peace.

 

[abdo123]

what you would want to do since your room is so tiny is one of these two:

1) push yourself and the speaker to center of the room so 1/4 wave length and 1/2 wave length are (hopefully) below ~120 Hz. and get a few (multiple) subs to work below 120 Hz.

2) keep the speakers the way they are, but surround them with bass traps. apsorbtion must go down to 100 Hz on any panel you buy (more than 10 cm thick).

Edit: EQ might help with the peaks, but you could never boost the dips. with cancelations, when you boost the direct sound, the reflections that cancel the direct sound are also boosted.

 

[snakearmpit]

thank you all for the information and ideas so far. Tomorrow I'll be able to move things around and measure again to compare.

 

[Tim Link]

I looked at your REW file. If you turn on psychoacoustic smoothing it shows about a 5db hump overall at 130Hz. Not too bad. You could EQ that out or move things around a bit as Frantz suggested. More importantly I think is what I'm seeing on the clarity graph. If you look at the C50 it's mostly all below 10 db, dropping below 5db in significant portions of the band between 100 and 1000 Hz. That means there's not good clarity and articulation in that frequency band, hence the muddiness you are hearing. Bass traps as suggested by abdo123 can help tremendously. Disclaimer - I sell bass traps! I've learned from experience that 10db or higher on the C50 is where things start to sound good. The muddiness is caused by sound bouncing back and forth repeatedly between the parallel surfaces of the room. It doesn't die down fast enough so transients sound blurred.

 

[abdo123]

Feel free to read this article as well, it contains essential information for getting proper bass in domestic settings

https://ethanwiner.com/basstrap_myths.htm

 

[AgentSanchez]

Hi everyone,

I finally got a room for myself and, long story short, after years of headphone use, I got my first pair of speakers. I'm loving them but bass was feeling a bit weird. So I went on to play a frequency sweep just for fun and almost fell off my chair at around 130Hz. I did some reading, got myself a mic, REW, measured it and now I don't know which way to go. I have some budget for room treatment but before reaching out to companies like GIK Acoustics for advice I thought I'd ask you fine folks. I'm no pro btw, in case it's not already obvious. Let me know if I'm not in the right place.

Below are measurements with both speakers on, mic at listening position facing forward. I've also measured the speakers individually and the results are interesting (to me at least) as they don't follow the same curve. The room is not square or rectangular (see below) so I assume that may be why. I can add those too if needed and can share the rew files too. Measurements are easily repeatable and consistent. Let me know if there are other scenarios/configurations I should measure.

A bit more about the setup:
Speakers are Focal Shape 50 (active, near-field). They are on audio acoustics stands on top of my desk, tweeters are at 120cm from ground, same as my ears when I'm sitting upright for listening. Space between them (measured from center of woofer) is 140cm, roughly the same distance to the back of my head when I'm at listening position. Speakers are not ported and are 7cm from the wall, I also tried placing them 20cm from the wall and did not seem to make much difference.


View attachment 124162


The room is not exactly rectangular, below is a 3D model to scale for reference. I can add pictures too if that helps.
Desk position is my own preference but could move to opposite wall if needed. Listening position is at the black chair. The smaller bookcase can be moved but that larger piece of furniture on the left is fixed.

View attachment 124163



I wonder if adding a bass trap on the right corner (where the lamp is) and a standing bass trap between the desk and the wardrobe on the right (since I can't add a corner trap there) would make any difference. Or pulling the desk back and adding treatment to that wall right behind the speakers? Anyway just random ideas. Let me know what you think. Is there hope to fix that 100-250Hz range?

Thanks in advance for any and all advice and please let me know if I should add any more info here.

Your best bet is ALWAYS to treat the room with broadband sound absorption (corners....). GIK Acoustics makes excellent products, are super helpful, and have a great education section. In the setup above, I had a similar little home studio set up and filled the two corners on either side of the desk with their corner traps and it smoothed out the low end MASSIVELY. Don't EQ (opinion) as that will further degrade sound outside of the listening position that you are calibrating to (fact).

 

[Thomas_A]

First fix. Use correct damping panels on the speaker wall behind he speakers. Leave a hard surface n the middle.

 

[Thomas_A]

Build a wood frame 10 cm deep, fill with glass wool, cover with perforated hardboard and on top of that 60 mm wedged foam. Done.

 

[AgentSanchez]

Build a wood frame 10 cm deep, fill with glass wool, cover with perforated hardboard and on top of that 60 mm wedged foam. Done.

Fantastic suggestion for anyone comfortable with some minor building

 

[tjkadar]

Before investing in room treatment, I would experiment with which wall the speakers were placed against and the listening position. Your room is not a perfect rectangle. You have a large chunk of immovable furniture at the first reflection point in the current setup. Try placing the speakers along the wall with the window and the opposite wall of the current setup. Take your time and play with the different possibilities. The way you have it right now might be the best you can do. Then again, it might not.

You have a mic and REW. Experimenting with speaker placement and the listening position is the most effective and cheapest way to treat room issues. Get it the best you can and then look at room treatment to fix the issues remaining.

 

[Hipper]

Before investing in room treatment, I would experiment with which wall the speakers were placed against and the listening position. Your room is not a perfect rectangle. You have a large chunk of immovable furniture at the first reflection point in the current setup. Try placing the speakers along the wall with the window and the opposite wall of the current setup. Take your time and play with the different possibilities. The way you have it right now might be the best you can do. Then again, it might not.

You have a mic and REW. Experimenting with speaker placement and the listening position is the most effective and cheapest way to treat room issues. Get it the best you can and then look at room treatment to fix the issues remaining.

Agree with this. It costs nothing but time to experiment.

Are you listening both at your desk and in the brown chair? If so, this is where room treatment will go someway to a solution, then DSP/EQ will enhance things with a measurement for each listening location. Getting the bass right is the biggest issue.