First PS Audio, now SBAF? More Smack Talking...

[Mad_Economist]

In his very first post he objects to drama; that is exactly what he just created...nice fellow.

In my experience, it's an important part of audio forum etiquette to begin any drama by complaining about drama.

 

[RayDunzl]

 

[noel_fs]

Although it is quite needlessly combatively phrased, and I don't necessarily expect the criticism to remain salient, IMO the comparison regarding the amplifier in the LSR is quite reasonable: if an integrated amplifier module isn't degrading the LSR305P's performance in ways that limit it compared to other speakers, presumably driven by superior amplification, should we care as listeners?

I enjoy measurements on their own merit, because it's interesting to see how things behave under different circumstances, and I admit that I have a fondness for gear whose specs are more appropriate for lab use than listening applications, but if a DAC or amplifier isn't going to dominate the audible nonlinearities of the playback system, can we really say it's a bad addition to it (particularly in the case of the el cheapo stuff that leaves more money for the speakers/headphones)?

Yes we can and its not even about if we care or not. Its about what we are getting for the price, if someone sells something for $3k claiming its the best there is and in reality its not even better than any mediocre $100 whatever type of gear it is who is more full of shit, the guy claiming that its the best when its not or the guy saying science matters most even if people or some people wouldnt even notice a difference (but they could spend less money).

 

[BDWoody]

Amir and Marv should get together, talk and measure equipment...

That would get some traffic.

 

[North_Sky]

In my experience, it's an important part of audio forum etiquette to begin any drama by complaining about drama.

That sounds like quantum mechanics.

 

[Jimbob54]

That would get some traffic.

Invite Jude too..

 

[Mad_Economist]

Yes we can and its not even about if we care or not. Its about what we are getting for the price, if someone sells something for $3k claiming its the best there is and in reality its not even better than any mediocre $100 whatever type of gear it is who is more full of shit, the guy claiming that its the best when its not or the guy saying science matters most even if people or some people wouldnt even notice a difference (but they could spend less money).

Well, not any better according to our ceased-to-be-audibility-correlated-several-decibels-ago measurements, to be strict. Much like asking if one infinity is larger than another, asking if one inaudibility is better than another seems a bit odd to me, at a listener level. Now, if a firm advertises a product as having best-in-class or best-in-world measurements and it doesn't, that's an entirely different matter, misleading or deceptive advertising being caught out is a major merit to independent testing.

But, for a lot of the $1000+ products that're measured here and perform poorly, the manufacturer's specs and marketing didn't claim incredible - or in many cases even "better than mediocre" - performance in the first place. If folks buy them, presumably they're not expecting extremely low nonlinearities, and I'm not entirely clear on what makes it more reasonable to complain about a $3000 DAC that measures like a $50 unit which doesn't equally well support complaining about a $2000 pro audio interface not using the DACs and ADCs from a $100 unit and a housing made from 50 troy ounces of silver¹, when all devices involved don't have audibly differentiable levels of noise or distortion with the speakers and program material we actually use.

¹: and if you're interested in such a product, please make your voice heard, because I may not know a lot about silver, but I can learn.

 

[CDMC]

So ... Chicago deep dish pizza?

You should ask purr1n, as he can explain both objectively and subjectively whether New York or Chicago style is better. I am sure he will also let us know about the Plankton of the pies, as well as the PRaT.

It looks like ASR gets about four times the traffic as SBAF. I am guessing purr1n is just trying to generate traffic.

 

[North_Sky]

You should ask purr1n, as he can explain both objectively and subjectively whether New York or Chicago style is better. I am sure he will also let us know about the Plankton of the pies, as well as the PRaT.

It looks like ASR gets about four times the traffic as SBAF. I am guessing purr1n is just trying to generate traffic.

He generates more traffic to ASR as a matter of fact.

 

[littlejoe]

I am new here and my first question I asked was totaled ignored so I hope I will not be attacked now. But.
Did people actually read what was pointed out on SBAF? Seems pretty simple to me, please correct me if I am
wrong.

A standalone amp tests poorly and is not recommended. A powered speaker with an amp which when tested
standalone tests poor also, but as a powered speaker system it becomes pretty highly recommended. So.
What if we take the not recommended power amp and pair it with a well designed passive speaker, does the former
bad amp now become a highly recommended component system? What is wrong with this picture? Are we making an error
in judgement when quickly calling the standalone power amp an outright dog.

 

[North_Sky]

No, the amp still remains not recommended, nothing changes.

 

[Totoro]

Lol. Yeah, maybe we should go directly to pineapple pizza and skip the rest.

Lol or the flying Jacob

 

[North_Sky]

Who's/what's the flying Jacob?

 

[CDMC]

I am new here and my first question I asked was totaled ignored so I hope I will not be attacked now. But.
Did people actually read what was pointed out on SBAF? Seems pretty simple to me, please correct me if I am
wrong.

A standalone amp tests poorly and is not recommended. A powered speaker with an amp which when tested
standalone tests poor also, but as a powered speaker system it becomes pretty highly recommended. So.
What if we take the not recommended power amp and pair it with a well designed passive speaker, does the former
bad amp now become a highly recommended component system? What is wrong with this picture? Are we making an error
in judgement when quickly calling the standalone power amp an outright dog.

Welcome to ASR. If you look further back in this thread, you will see this was discussed by a few members. The summary is that one is an active speaker and tested as an entire unit, one is a stand alone amplifier.

 

[Mad_Economist]

Welcome to ASR. If you look further back in this thread, you will see this was discussed by a few members. The summary is that one is an active speaker and tested as an entire unit, one is a stand alone amplifier.

I'll note that I continue to contend that parameters of amplifiers or DACs which would be unmeasurable and inaudible in their usual playback configuration - e.g. nonlinearities far below the level of the transducers involved - are really something that I feel should be relegated to technical interest rather than purchasing decisions. I'm aware that this view isn't majority here.

 

[Totoro]

Who's/what's the flying Jacob?

It‘s a reference the the other thread about ps audio. It’s a Swedish casserole

Flying Jacob (Swedish: Flygande Jacob) is a Swedish casserole that consists of chicken, cream, chili sauce, bananas, roasted peanuts and bacon. In the original recipe, the chicken is seasoned with Italian salad seasoning.[1] The dish is cooked in an oven and is usually served with rice and a salad.

The dish was invented by Ove Jacobsson who worked in the air freight industry, hence the name.[2] The recipe was first published in Swedish cooking magazine Allt om mat in 1976

there was a lot of discussion of pizza, and someone mentioned that in Sweden they have a pizza based on the flying Jacob.

 

[q3cpma]

I'm aware that this view isn't majority here.

That's worth a poll, in my opinion. There may be a silent majority on the subject, though I guess I understand people who want to be sure the electronics' distorsion is negligible compared to the drivers' at any playback level and frequency, which would make the speaker the only think left to perfect. Just some peace of mind.

 

[littlejoe]

No, the amp still remains not recommended, nothing changes.

Why?

 

[littlejoe]

Welcome to ASR. If you look further back in this thread, you will see this was discussed by a few members. The summary is that one is an active speaker and tested as an entire unit, one is a stand alone amplifier.

Thanks I understand that but if we put the bad amp with a good budget speaker, can we get well recommended combo? Now the bad amp is considered good. If this does happen, what does this tell us about measurements in the scenario? Are they actually less important to achieving our goal of good sound that we think?

 

[amirm]

A standalone amp tests poorly and is not recommended. A powered speaker with an amp which when tested
standalone tests poor also, but as a powered speaker system it becomes pretty highly recommended. So.
What if we take the not recommended power amp and pair it with a well designed passive speaker, does the former
bad amp now become a highly recommended component system? What is wrong with this picture? Are we making an error
in judgement when quickly calling the standalone power amp an outright dog.

When you buy a stand-alone amp, you have a wide range of choices. My job is to steer you towards the best designed ones. There is no reason to close your eyes and buy one at random because there are amps made for other uses that may perform worse.

When you buy a powered speaker, you can't pick its amp separately so I again, judge the unit relative to all the other (powered speaker) choices.

Note that I have commented repeatedly on low available power in LSR305 speaker and of course the hiss.