First post / looking for system advice

[kwolf]

Hello everyone. I'm starting to research setting up a decent quality audio system and I'm looking for advice. I have a modest music library on my older Macbook Pro, all ripped from cds using dBpoweramp. The files are ALAC format, and right now I'm using iTunes to play them. I like the convenience of having all my music stored on the computer and being able to select / play it that way, so I'd like to stick with that as the source. I don't use Pandora or any other music streaming service, so that's not a concern; I just play from my own library.

So- I am in the market for a DAC + integrate amp (or receiver) + speakers, or perhaps just a powered set of speakers, or whatever else might make sense. I'm trying to put together a system that could typically be agreed upon by most people to sound "really good" or even "great", but I don't need audio perfection and the corresponding price tag that would come along with it. I'm 48 years old, and while my hearing is decent it's certainly not close to perfect... definitely not as good as it used to be... so shooting for perfection would just be an exercise in vanity anyhow.

One thought I've had is that I should just order a pair of powered speakers, like maybe the Edifier s2000pros, or Swans, or something else equivalent. Bam, done. But then I thought maybe I should go with a modular system where I go from the computer via usb to a Topping D50, then RCA cables to an integrated like the NAD C 316BEE, then to an ok set of speakers like the Klipsch RP 600M. Also I've read about people turning up their noses at iTunes in favor of other music software. But if the music is going through the USB port would that really matter? I'm fine with the iTunes interface (though I don't think it's stellar), but I'd prefer to not have to change the file format on my music files (I've got about 1,700 disks ripped). I don't think very many music players support the ALAC format. Or does that even matter if I'm going with an external DAC anyhow?

I listen to music at a fairly low level most of the time. I almost never don headphones. About half of what I listen to is classical / jazz, and the other half is either folk or '90s punk/alternative. I typically listen to music in a quiet room that's very small.

Anyhow thanks for any and all opinions!
-k

 

[bobhol]

If you like I-Tunes stay with it. More info would be helpful. What is your Budget. New or Used. How small is this room. Do you have a preference as far as ascetics. Its very hard to determine what is going to sound good to your ears.

 

[FooYatChong]

Regarding the player, the problem with iTunes is it converts everything to the OS sample rate setting (which you set in audio/midi setup). So if it's set at 44.1/16, hoger resolution files (48/16, 96/24,...) are converted on the fly to those settings on playback.

Bit perfect players like JRiver or Audirvana will bypass the system audio settings and play back the files without making those changes.

With both JRiver (which I use) or Audirvana you can continue to use iTunes to organise your files.

 

[andreasmaaan]

What's your budget and what is your room like?

 

[GoMrPickles]

If you have a small, quiet room, and almost never wear headphones, powered studio monitors are probably a good way to go. Add a (balanced) DAC and you'll have a great 2ch setup.

As for which DAC or which speakers, that's ultimately (obvi) up to you. Some helpful, heated threads:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/evidence-based-speaker-designs.6441/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ate-boxes-help-me-understand-the-appeal.6456/

Many people around here have ordered Topping or SMSL DACs due to their price/performance ratio, but you can spend a lot more if you want.

 

[kwolf]

... What is your Budget. New or Used. How small is this room. Do you have a preference as far as ascetics. Its very hard to determine what is going to sound good to your ears.

Budget- up to about $2.5k. But if I really only need to spend $500, or $900, or whatever, then I'm happy to save money. I don't want something better just because the specs claim it's better; I'd like to be able to hear the difference. If I really only need to spend $399 on a set of Edifiers, then I'm happy with that. I don't have an easy way to get to listen to them first though to know if I'd like the sound.

New/Used- I'm happy with either. I have a very slight bias towards nice late '70s / early '80s receivers. I like their aesthetic, and I do like vintage stuff. But that's a very secondary concern compared to the final sound.

The room is small. About 8.5' x 11'.

I understand that it's impossible to know what will sound good to me, but I'm not too fussy. If it sounds "very good" or "great" to 85% of the people who listen to it, it'll almost certainly sound that way to me too. A few preferences of mine- I hate "hum" or "buzz" and won't stand for it. I dislike "hiss" as well, so minimizing that would be nice. For certain tracks, I do like the sound of a nice subwoofer (I mean, just listen to PJ Harvey's "Working For The Man" with a nice sub and you'll know what I mean!).

Thanks for your response.
-k

 

[kwolf]

Regarding the player, the problem with iTunes is it converts everything to the OS sample rate setting (which you set in audio/midi setup). So if it's set at 44.1/16, hoger resolution files (48/16, 96/24,...) are converted on the fly to those settings on playback.

Bit perfect players like JRiver or Audirvana will bypass the system audio settings and play back the files without making those changes.

With both JRiver (which I use) or Audirvana you can continue to use iTunes to organise your files.

Great info; thanks. My files all originated from cds, and I know that with a good setup downstream from the computer I won't personally be able to hear any difference with higher resolution files. So I don't plan on doing anything other than 44.1/16.

That said, if going with JRiver or Audirvana is really going to make an audible difference to me using my library, then I'm open to switching. I sort of doubt that'll be the limiting factor with the sound quality of the system, but I'm open to being wrong.

-k

 

[rwortman]

These people ( A4L) are my go to guys for bargain sound equipment. I have been purchasing from them for a long time. I got my latest high end'ish AVR from them for nearly half price. This receiver ( Yamaha RN303 ) will work fine as a base for a system and includes DAC/Streamer. There are lots of speakers out there that will do the trick. I am a PSB fan and have used/recommended their speakers for a 2 decades with no disappointed buyers. There are many other good choices. I have never been blown away by lower priced JBL speakers but I have never really been disappointed either. Buy what you like the sound of in a size that fits your room. An additional consideration is that Yamaha's MusicCast system has a nice UI and works well. You just need the computer your music is on to be connected to the same network as the receiver and running any one of many DLNA servers.

 

[garbulky]

I've heard the Klispch speakers you reference. Subjectively, they sound nice but they are not full range and has some cabinet coloration. But they are very pleasant to listen to.

At 2.5k
I reccomend
Emotiva DC-1 (used on Emotiva emporium) ($325) to Emotiva PA-1 balanced monoblock amps ($600 a pair) + Emotiva T2 tower speakers ($1000 a pair) (or T1 towers $500). $1925. Done - it's going to be full range. However the t2 may be too much bass for the room. The electronic footprint is also tiny and it's going to be fully balanced.
If you want to go cheap
Emotiva TA-100 ($400) to Emotiva T1 speakers $500 a pair - Total $900. Done. Should be close to full range in your setup. You could also do Emotiva T zero speakers which may not have quite the extension but still sound quite nice

 

[andreasmaaan]

Budget- up to about $2.5k. But if I really only need to spend $500, or $900, or whatever, then I'm happy to save money. I don't want something better just because the specs claim it's better; I'd like to be able to hear the difference. If I really only need to spend $399 on a set of Edifiers, then I'm happy with that. I don't have an easy way to get to listen to them first though to know if I'd like the sound.

New/Used- I'm happy with either. I have a very slight bias towards nice late '70s / early '80s receivers. I like their aesthetic, and I do like vintage stuff. But that's a very secondary concern compared to the final sound.

The room is small. About 8.5' x 11'.

I understand that it's impossible to know what will sound good to me, but I'm not too fussy. If it sounds "very good" or "great" to 85% of the people who listen to it, it'll almost certainly sound that way to me too. A few preferences of mine- I hate "hum" or "buzz" and won't stand for it. I dislike "hiss" as well, so minimizing that would be nice. For certain tracks, I do like the sound of a nice subwoofer (I mean, just listen to PJ Harvey's "Working For The Man" with a nice sub and you'll know what I mean!).

Thanks for your response.
-k

Your in a great price range there, your budget is right at the point of rapidly diminishing returns IMHO.

I might have missed it but I'm still not sure what your room is like. Speakers and room/setup are far and away the most important factors for sound quality, so you might also want to consider putting part of the budget towards room treatment.

In that price range I'd be mostly looking at active speakers / active subs, and putting a lot of thought into room setup. I'd put no more than $100 or $200 down on the DAC (or USB-AES converter depending on the monitors), which would be the only other component you'd need.

You might want to look at speakers from JBL (70x series), Genelec (8xxx series), Adam, and other quality studio monitor manufacturers.

If you do want to go down the passive path, I'd look at Revel (Performa series) and KEF (R series).

Other will no doubt have other suggestions though

 

[amirm]

The issue with powered monitors is that if they don't get loud enough, then you are stuck. Buying them without listening then can be a bit problematic.

That said, a balanced DAC like SMSL SU-8 and JBL 305 would be dirt cheap and really good sounding. Just won't fill a large room.

 

[Apesbrain]

Your room is small enough that you might get by with a pair of KEF LSX and a matching subwoofer. Wirelessly send music from your Mac using AirPlay. Optionally control playback from iPhone/iPad using Remote app.

 

[garbulky]

Your room is small enough that you might get by with a pair of KEF LSX and a matching subwoofer. Wirelessly send music from your Mac using AirPlay. Optionally control playback from iPhone/iPad using Remote app.

Man maybe it was me but I disliked the KEF LS50. I thought they were very overpriced

 

[kwolf]

Thanks for the thoughts so far. I'm reading up on what a "balance DAC" is. Not sure I fully grok it yet, but it sounds like it'll reduce noise and translate to better sound... which is fine by me. So you recommend the SMSL SU-8 over the Topping D50? Preliminary reading of the thread comparing the two seems to indicate the D50 is better, especially for USB?

 

[Webninja]

Might not be powerful enough for a whole room, but I have a Topping DX7s, which is connected via XLR cables to JBL 305. Probably could use a sub, but it plays loud and clean. I'm using Roon/Tidal and for the money I'm thrilled. Also works well for my headphones.

Whole thing cost me $600 shipped, plus $360 for Roon/Tidal per year.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Thanks for the thoughts so far. I'm reading up on what a "balance DAC" is. Not sure I fully grok it yet, but it sounds like it'll reduce noise and translate to better sound... which is fine by me. So you recommend the SMSL SU-8 over the Topping D50? Preliminary reading of the thread comparing the two seems to indicate the D50 is better, especially for USB?

A balanced DAC is unlikely to give you any audible advantage, I think Amir recommended one simply because most powered monitors take balanced inputs. Unless it's a strange setup you're planning, you're unlikely to hear the difference between decent DACs whether balanced or not - the speakers and room are what matter.

 

[stunta]

because most powered monitors take balanced inputs.

There is also the option to use an adapter from RCA to XLR

 

[BillG]

A great system for $1,500 (USD), or less, as the speakers are often on sale at deep discounts:


https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/wireless_streaming_amplifiers/wxa-50_u/index.html

https://www.infinityspeakers.com/R162BK.html

https://www.infinityspeakers.com/reference-series-home/REFERENCE+SUB+R12.html?dwvar_REFERENCE SUB R12_color=Black-GLOBAL-Current#q=Sub&start=1

 

[Soniclife]

You have lots of good options, and from quite different approaches. I think the main choice is between the more traditional amp driving passive speakers, or active monitors. If you want to fiddle with lots of kit passive speakers are the way to go, if you really don't want to fiddle active are great. They can both sound great.

How loud do you want to listen, in a small room like your there probably won't be a big issue getting loud, enough but worth checking.

For certain tracks, I do like the sound of a nice subwoofer (I mean, just listen to PJ Harvey's "Working For The Man" with a nice sub and you'll know what I mean!).

Great track, and I agree it needs deep bass. I'm a fan of small speakers crossed over to a sub, and they can be much easier to fit into a small room than big speakers that do bass. You probably don't need a big or expensive sub, but you will want to think about how it integrates into the system.

New/Used- I'm happy with either. I have a very slight bias towards nice late '70s / early '80s receivers. I like their aesthetic, and I do like vintage stuff. But that's a very secondary concern compared to the final sound.

@restorer-john probably considers this flirting, if you want to go this way I'm sure there are great options.

Similar to the Edifier is the Vantoo, I've not heard either brand but Amir liked the Vantoos. I think both of these will crossover to a sub, and take usb from the laptop, for a complete solution, and probably sound realy quite nice. I use a similar setup from Eve audio in my tiny home office, it does not have the dynamics of my main system but it's very easy to listen to and is perfect for my uses.

 

[Soniclife]

A few preferences of mine- I hate "hum" or "buzz" and won't stand for it. I dislike "hiss" as well, so minimizing that would be nice.

If you go the active monitor route be careful of this, some of them are said to have quite a bit of self noise, including the JBLs already mentioned in this thread. So check reviews and return polices, in this area some people just don't hear the noise so on-line opinions are tricky.