First Post: Choice of AsciLab C6b or Revel M145 for Near Field Setup

[Ronaldz]

Hi, I'm new to ASR and this is my first post!

I am setting up a "better" audio system for my private office than I have now.

I have taken a crash-course in bookshelf speakers (lots of reviews and reading posts on ASR). I keep coming back to the Revel M145s, but actual reviews aren't out. I am also looking at the AsciLab C6B due to positive reviews given the price.

Erin's review of the C6B, "best deal by far for the money," is compelling. Amir's review is positive but there is a is a 3d graph showing a bit more resonance than some other speakers. He still concluded with a rather enthusiastic "yes" and a swinging panther. I have been impressed by the reviews of the retired M105. Amir indicated that, with a small parametric adjustment, the M105 approaches "reference quality." But the M145 is new and the M105s can only be purchased used.

Given my bass-heavy listening, any speaker I choose will need a decent subwoofer. I am thinking of the SVS 300 Micro R/evolution for near field use in my 15 x 20 foot office. (The desk is in the middle of the room -- not on a wall).

Currently, I have a Wiim Ultra Streamer, a Fosi ZA3 amp and a less-than-stellar Klipsch 10inch "theater" sub which I want to upgrade as soon as possible. I currently rely on a pair of $100 Miccas on my desk next to the monitor. They are quite good for the price, but I want the closest-to-audiophile sound that I can afford. (Less than $2000 for speakers, less than $1000 for subwoofer).

I am leaning toward the M145s (which I want for Amir to review before I bring them home). But I am not sure if the "laser focused" C6Bs might be better for near field use.

Any thoughts will be very much appreciated!

 

[Steven Holt]

I've heard positive things about the two speakers you mentioned, but I've never heard them personally. What I have heard, and can recommend, is the KEF LS 50. The SVS is a good, and safe, choice for a subwoofer.

 

[GD Fan]

Those are two speakers that probably aren't sufficiently available to hear before committing, unfortunately. So your desire for objective reviews is understandable.

Like my friend above I haven't heard either one but based on objective reviews of other products from those brands, here and elsewhere as you pointed out, I'd have greater confidence sight unseen than most other situations.

Oh, and a +1 on SVS for subs.

Welcome to ASR, you are clearly in the right place!

 

[Ronaldz]

Thank you both for your responses.

I have noted that Revel does true blind tests of thier speakers as part of their R&D. I have imagined that the Most recent Revel Performa4 series has been listener-tested against the outgoing Performa3's as part of their R&D, but don't have confirmation of that.

Steven, you mentioned the KEF's (I believe you are referring to the LS50 Metas which Amir reviewed in 2021). These keep coming up as highly regarded. I will look into them more closely.

 

[Thighsofsteel]

I am setting up a "better" audio system for my private office than I have now.

What are the room dimensions of your office. Will you be placing the speakers on a desk at your work area? How far from the wall will they be. You may find the Ascilab F6B/s would be a better solution.
I feel you would benefit from a sub that you could use as both a high pass filter as well as the traditional lpf. A pro audio sub like a Dynaudio 9s would be good for this.

 

[YouDontHaveEnoughBass]

I’ve got the F6B/S (the sealed ones) with a 3000 micro and they’re phenomenal and probably better for your desk setup with their VESA mounts, slimmer size and ease of subwoofer integration compared to the C6B

Sorry to complicate things by throwing another option in but you really can end up with a better setup and save money while doing it

 

[Ronaldz]

I’ve got the F6B/S (the sealed ones) with a 3000 micro and they’re phenomenal and probably better for your desk setup with their VESA mounts, slimmer size and ease of subwoofer integration compared to the C6B

I have been looking over the Tested Audio retail site and the "the f6Bs" are indeed inexpensive at $845. I have not seen a review of this non-ported version (no passive speaker in back) and wonder how it compares to the $995 ported version.

What are the room dimensions of your office. Will you be placing the speakers on a desk at your work area? How far from the wall will they be. You may find the Ascilab F6B/s would be a better solution.

My thoughts are converging in the same direction. The F6Bs are about half the price of the Revels (and less than the C6Bs). It is slowly sinking in that the Revels are likely to be overkill. I envision the speakers at the corners of my desk, so I will be about 5 feet away as I am working. The desk is in the middle of a large office (16 feet wide and 25 feet deep). The desk faces a large window 10 feet in front of me. There are blank walls along both sides. There is thin commercial carpet and the room is not "bright" or echo-y, almost like a carpet-floored living room. There is a 9' high solid drywall ceiling. I don't need to fill the whole room with sound. I am trying for "near-audiophile quality" music (subject to budgetary limits) at my desk where I work.

 

[YouDontHaveEnoughBass]

here you go

AsciLab F6Bs Speaker Review

This is a review, detailed measurements, EQ and listening test of AsciLab F6Bs bookshelf/surround speaker. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $735 for a pair (US pricing $845 inclusive of tarrifs). This is an absolutely gorgeous design! It feels that way as well with a solid cabinet...

www.audiosciencereview.com

and here's the EQ i use for on-axis to fix the 'bump' amir mentions

 

[Ronaldz]

here you go

AsciLab F6Bs Speaker Review

This is a review, detailed measurements, EQ and listening test of AsciLab F6Bs bookshelf/surround speaker. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $735 for a pair (US pricing $845 inclusive of tarrifs). This is an absolutely gorgeous design! It feels that way as well with a solid cabinet...

www.audiosciencereview.com

and here's the EQ i use for on-axis to fix the 'bump' amir mentions
View attachment 553362

Thanks! I am learning so much so quickly. F6bs is not plural for F6B, it is F6B sealed.

 

[kemmler3D]

The C6B will be hard to beat, even if the revel measures very well.

 

[Thighsofsteel]

Thanks! I am learning so much so quickly. F6bs is not plural for F6B, it is F6B sealed.

I have them with a Dynaudio Sub 9s. Topping A70 & D70 Octo with Fosi za3 in my office room

 

[Ronaldz]

The C6B will be hard to beat, even if the revel measures very well.

Years ago, Amir reviewed the Revel M106 very highly and described it as one of his "reference speakers" to which other speakers in this price range were compared. Ever since. I have assumed that the Revels are head and shoulders above the rest in this price range. (This included the M105 and now, I'm speculating, the Performa4 M145 and M146).

The AsciLab choices are compelling. I just want to make sure that they are not a significant down-step (soundwise) to the Revels. The C6B is not signficantly less expensive than the M145, but may actually be a better choice for my planned use. The F6B is even less costly and work just fine as well.

 

[Ronaldz]

I have them with a Dynaudio Sub 9s. Topping A70 & D70 Octo with Fosi za3 in my office room

I like your set up! The F6B speakers do not overwhelm your desk, even with the stands, which is a concern I had.

 

[kemmler3D]

Years ago, Amir reviewed the Revel M106 very highly and described it as one of his "reference speakers" to which other speakers in this price range were compared. Ever since. I have assumed that the Revels are head and shoulders above the rest in this price range. (This included the M105 and now, I'm speculating, the Performa4 M145 and M146).

The AsciLab choices are compelling. I just want to make sure that they are not a significant down-step (soundwise) to the Revels. The C6B is not signficantly less expensive than the M145, but may actually be a better choice for my planned use. The F6B is even less costly and work just fine as well.

Amir has been a big fan of Revel and IIRC has Salon 2s in his house. But if we are taking Amir's opinion as a guide, he liked Ascilab speakers so much that he started a retail operation to import and sell them in the US - putting his credibility as a neutral reviewer at risk thereby. I would say that's the strongest endorsement Amir has given any product, period.

I think it's very unlikely the M145 will turn out to be a bad choice in any way. However, if I had to bet money, I'd say it's possible it ends up with wider directivity than the C6B or F6B. In that case, even with otherwise equal performance you might want the Ascilab in a nearfield setup anyway.

 

[Ronaldz]

I think it's very unlikely the M145 will turn out to be a bad choice in any way. However, if I had to bet money, I'd say it's possible it ends up with wider directivity than the C6B or F6B. In that case, even with otherwise equal performance you might want the Ascilab in a nearfield setup anyway.

I have the impression that the Revels excel at room-filling warmth; the AsciLabs would tend to provide a crisper separation on instruments and volume transients and not lose crispness due to the desk surface.

Perhaps this is a basic audiophile dilemma: "Room filling warmth" vs "crystal clear." It certainly is mine, because I can see attractions to both.

 

[kemmler3D]

Perhaps this is a basic audiophile dilemma: "Room filling warmth" vs "crystal clear." It certainly is mine, because I can see attractions to both.

Yes, I would say it speaks to one unsolvable question for the audiophile that cares about measurements. We can easily agree that lower distortion and smoother frequency response on- and off-axis are good.

However, how wide should the directivity be? Should we be aiming for "you are there" or "they are here"? Can either wide or narrow directivity be said to be "higher fidelity" than the other? Does what they used in the mastering studio matter? Are dipole and omni on the table as hi-fi? There are no final answers on these questions.

 

[Ronaldz]

So, I made my choice, and ordered the C6Bs from Amir's Tested Audio website .

I came to the conclusion that the Revels are really more for room-filling listening and would be less efficient for near field desktop use. The $500 in savings didn't hurt either. Really, nothing would have been wrong with the Revels though, even in near field application.

The C6Bs will be quite large on my medium-sized desk, almost towering above the sides of my monitor, an arrangement only a music lover would consider. (Sort of makes a statement: I enjoy music more than working... : )

I appreciate everyone's comments and thoughts and will be back with more comments after I set up the speakers.

 

[Ronaldz]

A couple more thoughts I want to share.

I recognize my two runner-up desktop speaker choices might sound arbitrary (the C6B vs the Revel M145). I wanted the Revel because it is only 12" high (good for my desk) and is very likely to be acclaimed -- as nearly all newer Revels are. I am sure that other speakers in the same price range (especially KEH) would have been just as nice in near field application.

I finally settled on the C6B because these speakers reach down further-than-most into the bass range, (41hz at -6db). While they can't be played loudly at the low end, they can be played quietly, which fits my needs during the day. I am in an office setting, where the whump-whump-whump of a subwoofer would unsettle my neighbors.

In the evenings and weekends I can power up my subwoofer, set the high pass at 80 htz and enjoy loud powerful sound. Phase matching issues will be sorted by the digital sound processor and room equalization built into my Wiim Ultra.

In contrast, the M145s have a 54hz lower end (at -6 db) and, in my opinion will always sound better (for bass-heavy music) when paired up with a subwoofer. The base drops off too soon for my preferences. The M145s are probably perfect for a living room with a full-time subwoofer or two, but not perfect for my use).

The M145 has a 5.25" woofer and I just like the idea of the 6" woofer in the C6B. Maybe it won't sound any better (the 5.25" is higher tech than the off-the-shelf 6"), but I imagine that more air will move in the bass region. I was very tempted to buy the M145 and might have if I had found an open box set. However at $2,000 retail (or even with a 10% discount), the M145s are just a bit out of my price range. I got my C6B speakers at $1,345. I will spend the difference on a decent amplifier.

By the way, researching these and other speakers (and amps and subwoofers) was assisted by Google's AI. I have been hesitant to use AI -- (I'm not at all reassured by news reports of AI's potential for harm as well as good) -- but on Google's website, AI is free and is there to take advantage of. I type in my questions, and it provides (mostly, but not always) accurate stats and suggestions. It proved and excellent tool to sort out choices and limitations when combining subwoofers, amps and streamers -- all on an instantaneous basis. It may not be new to anyone researching the next big-screen TV or a new lawn mower, but it was certainly new to me.

 

[Luvchampagne]

A couple more thoughts I want to share.

I recognize my two runner-up desktop speaker choices might sound arbitrary (the C6B vs the Revel M145). I wanted the Revel because it is only 12" high (good for my desk) and is very likely to be acclaimed -- as nearly all newer Revels are. I am sure that other speakers in the same price range (especially KEH) would have been just as nice in near field application.

I finally settled on the C6B because these speakers reach down further-than-most into the bass range, (41hz at -6db). While they can't be played loudly at the low end, they can be played quietly, which fits my needs during the day. I am in an office setting, where the whump-whump-whump of a subwoofer would unsettle my neighbors.

In the evenings and weekends I can pull out my subwoofer, set the high pass at 80 htz and enjoy loud powerful sound. Phase matching issues will be sorted by the digital sound processor and room equalization built into the Wiim Ultra.

In contrast, the M145s have a 54 htz lower end (at -6 db) and, in my opinion will always benefit greatly being paired up with a subwoofer for the bass-heavy music. The base drops off too soon for my needs and it seems that a subwoofer will always be needed to fill out the base. This is perfect for a living room with a full-time subwoofer or two, but not perfect for my use).

The M145 has a 5.25" woofer and I just like the idea of the 6" woofer in the C6B. Maybe it won't sound better, but I imagine that more air will be moved in the bass region. I was very tempted to buy the M145 and if I have found an open box set at a lower price I might have bought it. However at $2,000 retail (or even with a 10% discount), it is just a bit out of my price range. I got my mat black C6B speakers at $1,345. I will spend the difference on a decent amplifier.

By the way, researching these and other speakers (and amps and subwoofers) was assisted by Google's AI. I have been hesitant to use AI -- (I'm not at all reassured by news reports of AI's potential for harm as well as good) -- but on Google's website, AI is free and is there to take advantage of. I would type in my questions, and it would provide (mostly, but not always accurate) stats and suggestions. It proved and excellent tool to sort out choices and limitations when combining subwoofers, amps and streamers -- all on an instantaneous basis. It may not be new to anyone researching the next big-screen TV or a new lawn mower, but it was certainly new to me.

I don't disagree with your end result but you're wrong about the use of ai for helping you make decisions on audio equipment. The whole basis of ai is to take mass responses and pattern match them to your questions. So you're doomed from the start. Since the ultra majority of media and audio enthusiasts use subjective criteria and most of those also shun objective criteria your ai responses will likely be flawed. Also if you think that this will be balanced out by ASR then think again. Claude, Gemini and Chatgpt all have issues scraping ASR so there might be some general ASR commentary that the AIs scrape from Reddit but actual posts are not accessible. I've experimented extensively with most of the AI models and your most likely result will be the lowest common denominator response. That's just how AIs are built.

 

[Ronaldz]

Luvchampagne,

AI is certainly not all good -- Google's AI chat talked about Revel Performa3 speakers as if they are still for sale and helpfully referred me to sites (like Crutchfield) that showed 2 year old prices and said "Sold Out." And there are certainly references to random Reddit chats between people who are no more knowledgeable than I am.

On the other hand, the AI robot walked me through how to set up my parametric EQ high pass on the Wiim. Of course I could have done the same thing with Wiim's online manual. But I didn't have to open Wiim's site, "thumb through" a manual electronically, search for the info I want, pass through a lot of other info I didn't need at that moment but would feel compelled to read. Instead I asked my "How do I?" question and a list of steps was set out in front of me 10 seconds later.

AI is good at fetching product data:
Q. "Compare the dimensions and stated frequency range of speaker x and speaker y".
A. Two columns show up side by side with the requested information compared line by line. Of course everything I would want to rely upon has to be checked.

If viewed as an aid, not a substitute for judgment, I think AI is not all bad. But, to ask it a judgment question, "Is this subwoofer better for my needs than that, and why?" strays, as you indicated, into AI's lowest common denominator "advice." Of course, when certain products are suggested to my by the AI robot I immediately search for a review on ASR or Erin's corner or in the forums.

Your point is well taken your comments are appreciated. I plan to be careful to track down the sources of the AI "advice" (the links are there within the chat), and do my own independent research without blind reliance.