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First impressions of Dutch & Dutch 8C

suttondesign

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After getting to know and understand this unusual product, and having had some time to test out different room locations in a 13x19 room, I can offer initial impressions. I'm running these right now with the balanced analog output from an RME DAC because I don't have a digital switcher for my two sources, Toslink and USB. The RME, located in a closet with my server, and connected with an IR repeater, gives me remote-control capability for both sources from my couch. God forbid I should get up to fiddle with something.

First and most conscpicuously, this is far and away the most tonally balanced speaker I have ever run in my room. Note, I have to EQ down a strong room mode at 79hz, and I won't speak to tonal balance around and below that. But in the rest of the spectrum above about 100hz, neutral. As in, like a feather on the ear, with no way to discern crossovers. Since I've never had a speaker like that, it is an interesting experience.

Drivers: stellar. Detail retrieval out the wazoo. Plenty of headroom, though I don't play anything too loud. Bass is deep and full-range right out of the box, though I used the room boundary setting to dial in my 15" distance from the rear wall.

Imaging: very good front-back, side-to-side limited to the speaker locations. Contrast this with the dipole Orions I just sold, which create a broad, deep soundstage. But the Linkwitz have to be well out in a room and away from boundaries to achieve that. The Dutch need space on the sides but very little behind. My goal was to simplify and reduce the footprint of my system without sacrificing sound quality.

Ease of use: running L and R balanced analog out XLR cables from an RME DAC/pre, super easy. But I already have power outlets conveniently located behind each speaker, minimizing the power headache. I also have PVC pre-laid under my concrete slab and running from my equipment closet to each speaker location. A few minutes with fish tape and boom! they're all connected and ready to rock.

Lastly, something which I'm not sure is good or bad: they sound like studio mastering equipment. The Linkwitz dipoles definitely do not -- they create a shimmery soundfield in which things come and go. With the Dutch, you can hear the difference in the soundfield between stage-miked things and booth-miked things that have been mixed in, often with inconsistent reverb effects. It's painfully apparent that with either classical or pop, the spot-mics are hot. However, with something like an Innocence Mission recording, which seems to be essentially live in a studio, the sound is like you are 8 feet away listening to the recording in process. I wouldn't say you get lost in a multitrack studio recording; you get put at the control board analyzing it. I had this problem with good headphones at first until I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb -- er, music.

More when I know it.
 

direstraitsfan98

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What was previously your reference? My biggest question with these state of the art powered monitors is what a single 10 inch bass driver DSP’d sounds like compared to a 15 inch woofer effortlessly digging down to the low 30 cycles. Is the sound less big? Yeah, I know the often touted phrase with small speakers, that they “project a sound bigger then you’d think” but that doesn’t really answer my concern that the bass performance would be considerably lacking a sense of scale and effortlessness that a big woofer can do.

And for the record when I’m talking about bass I mean stuff in the 80hz range and under. Double bass, the lowest notes on a regular electric guitar, and synthesized samples on fast paced EDM or hip hop. It was my understanding that physics are physics, and no amount of DSP could correct a lack of enclosure volume.

Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. I’m very happy to learn. I honestly don’t know as I’ve never heard a Dutch and Dutch 8c or a Kii 3. Nor am I familiar with what DSP is truly capable of.
 
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suttondesign

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Preliminary response:

My reference is Linkwitz Orions, hands-down the best speakers I have ever heard at any price.

I have not yet run big orchestral with huge peaks. With some difficult pop and electronic, the bass response below 50hz is very impressive and all there, but it does not seem to me to be of the same very-low-distortion quality as a well-engineered, devoted 15" subwoofer, which I also have. My big sub is impossible to locate and yet very present. I would say the Dutch has a good subwoofer, not unlike what I used to get from a Sunfire True: you are conscious that you are listening to a speaker pushing air. Does that make sense? I will shortly do a test and cross over below 50hz to my big sub. I also plan to listen to my orchestral test tracks. But I'm selling the sub anyhow -- the point of getting into Dutch was to simplify and reduce the footprint of the media room system owing to . . . life. If I can't be happy with a $12k speaker/amp with superb tonal balance, and one which these days mostly gets used for video because my kids hog my media room, then I need to reexamine priorities.

The bass from 50hz upwards also does not have the natural timbre of the Linkwitz Orions. No surprise there: I have never heard a monkey coffin (box speaker) which has a natural mid-bass sound like the Orions, and the Dutch is no exception. I had been wanting to build Siegried's last design for a smaller room, the LXMini, so I probably will do so so that I have both options. I can stick the LXMini in my equipment closet when not being used! Remember, I'm the Texas dealer for the Dutch, so I am keeping them at-the-ready for demonstration at client homes/studios.
 

MSNWatch

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What was previously your reference? My biggest question with these state of the art powered monitors is what a single 10 inch bass driver DSP’d sounds like compared to a 15 inch woofer effortlessly digging down to the low 30 cycles. Is the sound less big? Yeah, I know the often touted phrase with small speakers, that they “project a sound bigger then you’d think” but that doesn’t really answer my concern that the bass performance would be considerably lacking a sense of scale and effortlessness that a big woofer can do.

And for the record when I’m talking about bass I mean stuff in the 80hz range and under. Double bass, the lowest notes on a regular electric guitar, and synthesized samples on fast paced EDM or hip hop. It was my understanding that physics are physics, and no amount of DSP could correct a lack of enclosure volume.

Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. I’m very happy to learn. I honestly don’t know as I’ve never heard a Dutch and Dutch 8c or a Kii 3. Nor am I familiar with what DSP is truly capable of.

It's DSP plus gobs of power compensating for the smaller enclosure. But of course there are limits to that also.
 
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suttondesign

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Update. On imaging, instead of a soundstage from the speakers rearward as I am more accustomed to, the soundstage is more like a hemisphere extending from in front of the speakers to behind. On close-miked recordings with a voice front and center, the singer is forward of the speakers, with instruments arrayed around and behind.
 
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suttondesign

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These speakers sound best 10"-18" from the wall behind the speakers with at least that amount, or more, on the sides. When out in the room as with most speakers, the imaging blurs for some reason I don't understand.
 

kaka89

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I had a brief listening session with the 8C and found them overpower for near field listening (around 7' from listening position)
Did you also found the 8C had too much energy?
 

Purité Audio

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Did you try turning them down?
Keith
 

Soniclife

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These speakers sound best 10"-18" from the wall behind the speakers with at least that amount, or more, on the sides. When out in the room as with most speakers, the imaging blurs for some reason I don't understand.
Have you tried multiple rooms?
You are changing the settings for wall distances each time you move them?
 
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