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First attempt at manual EQ - opinions appreciated

KenMasters

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I've dabbled with EQ over the years, but have always ended up favouring the results I got with Audyssey XT32. Recently though, with the advent of new subs that offer 7 band PEQ, I thought I'd make a more concerted effort of it.

My system consists of KEF LS50 Metas and dual Arendal 1723 1S subwoofers, which sit in an asymmetrical open plan living-room. I've treated the room as best I can, mindful of not provoking the ire of my wife, and have done the necessary measurements to figure out best seating and placement.

The only tools I have at my disposal for EQ is the 7 band PEQ of the subs and my Denon AVR's graphic equaliser. On the equaliser side I was very light on the EQ, following the natural in-room response, on the sub side I needed to cut quite heavily towards the low end to bring the bass down as the rise is quite dramatic.

This is the response I'm accustomed to using Audyssey (Flat):

Audyssey.jpg

This is what I came up with:

Manual EQ.jpg

More details:

Decay.jpgRT 60.jpgClarity.jpgDistortion.jpgWaterfall.jpgSpectrogram.jpg

I'm still getting used to the adjustment, not sure how I feel about it to be honest. Sometimes I really like it, sometimes I wonder if the bass isn't too aggressive - but I'm also aware I'm hyper focusing on the details and there's a level of anchor bias having grown accustomed to the way Audyssey had shaped my sound.

From those with the experience, what do you make of the response, anything that stands out to you as problematic, any suggestions? I get obsessed with details, so this sort of tweaking is fraught with potential wormholes I'll get lost in for days and never actually enjoy my system. So either clear direction or affirmation would be greatly appreciated :)
 

fpitas

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I'm surprised you can do much good with a 7 band EQ. A lot of my bass corrections have a Q of 10, or more.
 

sigbergaudio

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I'm surprised you can do much good with a 7 band EQ. A lot of my bass corrections have a Q of 10, or more.

You can do a lot in the bass with a 3-band EQ. You could probably get almost the same result with far less EQ points than you have.

OP: That needs some work. I'll send you a suggested curve when I get to a computer.:)
 

theREALdotnet

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I’m surprised you can get a bass response that peaks at 8Hz.
 
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KenMasters

KenMasters

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I’m surprised you can get a bass response that peaks at 8Hz.

Yes, members have commented on that before. Interestingly, if my wife closes the door to her library at the other end of the apartment, the response drops off quite a bit earlier. I always considered mine a small room, but I guess as far as the subs are concerned, the entire apartment is the room.
 

sigbergaudio

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@KenMasters You seem to have a pretty well behaved room, which is always a good starting point. :)

Based on your graph, I think your bass tilt is starting way too late, and you have too little energy basically from 30-300hz.

I would be interested to hear how you experienced a curve that looked something like this:
1674225460556.png




If that feels too much you could build a similar slope but starting from your current 20-40hz level, so like this:
1674225610064.png
 
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KenMasters

KenMasters

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@KenMasters You seem to have a pretty well behaved room, which is always a good starting point. :)

Based on your graph, I think your bass tilt is starting way too late, and you have too little energy basically from 30-300hz.

I would be interested to hear how you experienced a curve that looked something like this...

I did see that after superimposing Floyd Toole's preference curve for trained listeners over the response I have:

Toole.jpg

But it was just one option of many, and that area between the subs and speakers is a bit tricky to balance out.

Thanks for feedback, exactly the sort of clear direction I was hoping for!
 

sigbergaudio

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@KenMasters I'm guessing you're getting lots of room gain below 20hz, but you could perhaps consider actually using EQ to dampen that a bit so that it's level with the 20-100hz area. That way you'll add some headroom to your subs probably, in case you feel like you need to. :)
 
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KenMasters

KenMasters

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@KenMasters I'm guessing you're getting lots of room gain below 20hz, but you could perhaps consider actually using EQ to dampen that a bit so that it's level with the 20-100hz area. That way you'll add some headroom to your subs probably, in case you feel like you need to. :)

I was unsure if this would be necessary. I am using the EQ2 setting, so the native response of the cabinet as opposed to the extended DSP shaped response of EQ1.

Would it be of sonic benefit to do so do you think? I'm not concerned about headroom, I'm cutting by the maximum amount at 20Hz already anyway - though the Arendal app does offer a configurable subsonic filter?

@KenMasters what is your crossover frequency?

Currently using 100Hz (was using 120Hz under Audyssey).
 

sigbergaudio

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@KenMasters If you're not playing super loud it may not be necessary, but you could consider activating the subsonic filter at 10hz or something. The driver is likely to distort at higher levels at those low frequencies. Whether it will be very audible unless the driver approaches its excursion limit is debatable.
 
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KenMasters

KenMasters

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It wasn't easy trying to wrangle the response to adhere to the "trained listeners" trace I copied from this chart:

Subjective.png

But finally got it done:

Working.jpg


Will spend some time living with it and see how I feel. I've got to say though, for what started off as a fun little project, I am now absolutely wiped out after spending days going through the same menus and pouring over countless charts.

EDIT: Oh, and I did end up instituting a low pass filter at 20Hz - 6dB/oct
 
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KenMasters

KenMasters

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Does it naturally fall off above 2khz as well or did you eq it down?

That's natural - the graph I posted initially is pretty much the basic in room response of the speakers at my MLP. My EQ efforts were focused mainly on the sub then, as conventional online wisdom seemed to suggest not messing with the speakers too much - though I had to get more aggressive now to get the slope right.
 
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sigbergaudio

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Impressive job. Whether it's right for you and for room remains to be seen, and only your ears can tell you that. But I suspect you will be able to dial in something to your liking mainly by adjudting the sub gain now.

How does it sound?
 
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KenMasters

KenMasters

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Impressive job. Whether it's right for you and for room remains to be seen, and only your ears can tell you that. But I suspect you will be able to dial in something to your liking mainly by adjudting the sub gain now.

How does it sound?

It is quite different, more laid back, but a very comfortable listen. I found it slightly too strong at the low end, but after playing around a bit I found decreasing the subs by 3dB made for a more balanced sound.

Dialogue/vocals are also noticeably deeper in the mix now, not as subjectively articulate/brilliant as before, but I don't feel like I'm losing out on intelligibility - the overall impression is closer to what I experience in a good movie theatre.

I'll give it a week and see if I feel like making any adjustments come next weekend, but so far I'm really enjoying the smoother sound.
 
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puppet

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My only comment would be that the response slope seems too steep. On balance, the upper end is attenuated way too far.
You've seemed to notice that as well by your comments. I don't think anything should "stand out" in your impressions of the overall sound. If it does, it still needs work.
 
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sigbergaudio

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My only comment would be that the response slope seems too steep. On balance, the upper end is attenuated way too far.
You've seemed to notice that as well by your comments. I don't think anything should "stand out" in your impressions of the overall sound. If it does, it still needs work.

Yes, it does seem a bit steep above 1khz, that's why I asked if that was the natural response or if he had done something to actively EQ it down. If that is the natural response I'm not sure I would have done anything with it, and also it may look more attentuated than it really is depending on how it's measured etc. He also stated that he reduced the bass level with 3dB after this measurement, so then it's more balanced.
 
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