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Finding 'good enough'

"Diminishing returns" in audio - as I interpret it for myself - is not suitable as a metric, because their "starting point" will be different for different people.
For me it is the point, at which my "last brain cell" will tell me "come on, with your remaining hearing, even better gear yields you zero".
 
We like what we like, some people like jewellery, watches fancy cars. Some of us just like DACs, amps and speakers and can't get enough of them. Luckily I'm now informed enough to know that spending more than I have to is not going to gain me anything. But I still love looking, researching and occasionally spending on what I think will be products to satisfy me. I just don't think I'm missing out in the slightest anymore from owning the pinnacle of what the market has to offer.
 
Mart68 said:
That's more like upgrading to an active system. At least initially anyway.
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Yeah but my current one is already too smart. I think passive would suit me better. :facepalm: :cool:
 
Westsounds said:
Diminishing returns is an economic principle that's been applied within this BS hobby. Diminishing returns of what though. To say DR would mean there's a scale to continuously get better on, and there is no such thing with high fi equipment. It's basically personal preference, there is only so good a DAC can sound. Let's just say for arguments sake that it is at a figure of 500. Then go out and buy five of the claimed 'greatest' in the marketplace at 10,000 each, where is the return, there is none because we have reached the limit of how good a DAC can be. Anything above that, you are just hearing an effect that perhaps appeals to you. The hifi business is complete nonsense, even applying that DR scale into it is marketings to make people believe there is more to achieve, when there actually is not.

I'm happy to be proven wrong that's what science is about. But why are we even applying economic terminology into 'upgrading' of 'good enough' equipment .
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We're talking about speakers, not dacs. You really can't see how the concept of diminishing returns applies to speakers and this conversation about good enough?

I Hit the like button for one of your comments just above because i agree there is a lot of bs in this industry and hobby. But it feels like you are not seeing the forest for the trees with my comment. I find it unusual that you seem to be focusing on the idea that dimishing returns alludes to a scale that can always improve thus it has no relevance in audio. My, i thought rather clear, point was that you can pay a modest amount of money and get a great sounding system if chosen carefully... which is often good enough. If you pay multiples of that $ amount you may only get a relatively modest improvement, multiples again and you may only get a quite small added benefit. Yes, there is a point where there is no improvement at all as well. I don't know where that point is but I do believe there is a substantial diminishing returns curve between that point and the sound a $100 speaker kicks out.
 
Multicore.

For a long time, as a hi-fi enthusiast, I have been thinking about why Genelec firm does not much market these loud 12xx loudspeakers anywhere in the world, but all marketing emphasizes the new aluminum series on the One series. Sure, I understand that the new series is smaller and sells better than the bigger old series, but they both have great potential if they had the will to conquer the high end market properly.

That latest 8381a model when it comes to the look of many interesting people out of it, and the small -laced side does not seem like a very inspiring idea. Maybe they should make surface solutions with more stylish wood veneer and varnish solutions?
 
A short cut is to buy *engineered* speakers of any brand , the rest will follow, they work better in most rooms you discover that the electronics does not do much and it’s mostly you and the recordings .

I’ve compromised on ultimate spl in my systems getting older I reckon I can’t listen very loud for prolonged period anyway ( unless I get some of that bourbon ).
 
Tannoy Canterbury SE Oh so close but NO cigar! Westminsters or DEATH Hahahaha! Too much is NEVER enough! If I ever get to mod the S-hit out of those suckers. GOD himself will be INSANELY jealous!
That said I would HAPPILY enjoy till my dying day. A custom pair of 100 Litre Philips 12 inch full rangers. Whizzer cones removed with a leveling circut & fostex bullets. Had that wonder for not long enough! Cost me $250 Total. & gave me 90% of what the Tannoys did @1/100th the cost! AMAZING!
 
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Once we accept "it is good enough" we can focus solely on the music
I admit it is not always easy ;)
Enjoy...
 
chips666 said:
Once we accept "it is good enough" we can focus solely on the music
I admit it is not always easy ;)
Enjoy...
Click to expand...
You concisely summed up my real point. Get to your "good enough" and just relax, enjoying the music without constantly worrying about FOMO.
 
Since I married twenty-nine years ago and had to sell the large 'end game' monitors I loved so much (much too large, FAR too heavy to move around and a small room that had to accommodate two people's 'stuff' rather than one frugal and tidy lady), I've NEVER had from my sound system what I'd call 'good enough to forget about.' Instead and especially now 'audio' isn't a hobby so much as merely a means to get music into my depleted ears, I put up with what I have - it can be surprisingly okay when I'm in the mood for it, but unsurprisingly 'distant' and lacklustre when I'm not.
 
djb said:
There are $25 bottled in bond bourbons that crush big name whisky's that bourbon hunters seek out and over pay for.
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Please say more, max flavour on a budget is my type of thing. Reply in the spirits thread if you prefer.
 
Soniclife said:
Please say more, max flavour on a budget is my type of thing. Reply in the spirits thread if you prefer.
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One small tip - for the value conscious among us who reside in the U.S. - the Trader Joe's $15 bourbon is very, very good for the money, IMO.
 
DSJR said:
Since I married twenty-nine years ago and had to sell the large 'end game' monitors I loved so much (much too large, FAR too heavy to move around and a small room that had to accommodate two people's 'stuff' rather than one frugal and tidy lady), I've NEVER had from my sound system what I'd call 'good enough to forget about.'
Click to expand...

Ouch! What were those speakers that you had to give up?

I hope I don’t end up in a similar situation, but fortunately, I do not foresee it.

I’m pretty much at the end of my audio
“ journey” in terms of not needing to buy more equipment. This coincided with my finances not being able to play that game anymore either. But it was at least fortuitous that I ended up with my end game system before things changed. I definitely have
“ good enough” for me audio-wise (my two favourite loudspeakers).
 
respice finem said:
Ich brauche es nicht, sprach der Rabe, es ist nur Schön, wenn ich es habe :) (sorry too difficult to translate)
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I don't need it, said Rabe, it is only nice, if I had it.
Normally Schön translates to "pretty" but in this case, it just would be "nice" to have.
 
EJ3 said:
I don't need it, said Rabe, it is only nice, if I had it.
Normally Schön translates to "pretty" but in this case, it just would be "nice" to have.
Click to expand...
But the rhyme is gone... and I have no talent of translating rhymes into rhymes.
 
MattHooper said:
Ouch! What were those speakers that you had to give up?

I hope I don’t end up in a similar situation, but fortunately, I do not foresee it.

I’m pretty much at the end of my audio
“ journey” in terms of not needing to buy more equipment. This coincided with my finances not being able to play that game anymore either. But it was at least fortuitous that I ended up with my end game system before things changed. I definitely have
“ good enough” for me audio-wise (my two favourite loudspeakers).
Click to expand...
My 'end game' (ATC 100A) speakers are now regarded as 'out of date' and highly priced, far higher than inflation alone - well all this was mid 90s when I had them. I could listen to music for hours with them, as did their next owner who kept them and my ATC preamp I sold him later, until he passed away in 2012. I heard a current spec pair not too long ago and shed tears (I kid you not!), as I could happily live with a pair again and never worry again about Klippel plots, dispersion/directivity patterns or whether the famous mid driver should be crossed over 500Hz lower for better results.

Most of you look away now from this post, as the current video at 2:00 has my dear old and sadly deceased friend Richard Carpenter, talking about the TV series 'Robin of Sherwood.' See what's lurking behind his chair which was rolled into position for the interview. No idea who ended up with them, as his son had his own little rig and wasn't interested -

 
I've spent pretty much my whole life in finding the 'Good Enough' point in everything I buy, whether cars, HiFi, cameras etc etc.

In terms of Hifi, it's audible transparency. When distortion is less than 0.1%. noise less than 80dB, frequency response flat to +-3dB 20-20kHz, I'm happy. No need ever to chase any more dBs or kHz. I'm done.

Consequently, as just about everything for the last 50 years has been transparent, unless deliberately designed not to be, so to 'stand out', I've bought everything on facilities alone. If it meets my operational requirement, it's Good Enough.

This thread reminded me that 20-25 years ago, not long before I retired, BBC and other tenders we were responding to for broadcast equipment only mentioned operational spec. Audio specs, as in dBs and kHz and % were taken as read, as they couldn't envisage anything not meeting transparency specs.

Also, many years ago DIN codified the meaning of HiFi in the DIN spec 45500. It now looks hopelessly bad, but if you think about what it actually means, it's pretty much what one needs for transparency, so anything more than that is unnecessary, and therefore only of interest as a marketing spec.


S.
 
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