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Final loudspeaker!

maverickronin

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#21
I'm with @q3cpma on taking Genelec and Neuman over Kii and D&D for reliability and repairability.

There's also the upcoming GGNTKT M2 if you don't mind waiting and @Purité Audio will probably be able to get you a demo too. They're in the same small/startup category as Kii and D&D, but all their electronics are external and don't seem to have needlessly complex firmware so they'll be a lot easier to fix or replace after the company goes under and/or stops selling spare parts.
 
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#28
I dont know about the sound pressures you need to achieve, but but since your room isn't that large, I would reconsider the sub and try a Genelec 8331A, 7350 sub and GLM combo. Small, elegant and lovely-sounding. Regarding reliability and serviceabilty, Genelec should be hard to beat. They are stubborn and proud Finns ;-) I'm Swedish but I sure trust them!
 
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Jimshoe
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Thread Starter #29
Thank you for all the useful replies guys - sorry it's taken a while to respond, I've been away from technology for a couple of days!

What is the reason you don't want a sub? Is it too hard to set up? Is it the space it takes? Bass emanating from a loudspeaker that can't be moved to minimize room issues is not the path to the best sound.
I'm keen to get back the space taken up by the sub. Plus, I feel an all-in-one loudspeaker should be inherently more coherent than a separate sub (from a different manufacturer).

I'd say the KH420, Genelec's 1237/8A (GLM being a nice thing) or 8361A or D&D's 8C. If you can wait, maybe Buchardt's new active stuff or GGNTKT's M2 could also do.
Yes, the KH420 is high on my list, but I will look at these others - thank you.

Passive loudspeakers are much better as a "final" solution - it is very unlikely that you'll fry a driver, electronics failures are more common.
You can buy something like JBL M2 with a slight stretch of budget, or find a used one.
You can measure/find its DSP settings and then use amplifier of your choice.
Using something as convoluted inside as Kii or D&D (web server for volume control, excuse me?), or even genelec/neumann would be really strange if you seek reliability.
Everything fails, what matters is percentage of failures and ease of replacement.
While you can't know percentage of failures (or MTBF figure), you sure know that replacing separates is easy.
Mmm, I can't say I agree here. I have found active speakers to be inherently better in sound terms that passive ones (as clarifed by q3cpma above. Plus, the space saving and reduced clutter is a godsend. I do understand your point RE reliability, hence my interest in established proven manufacturers with a history of being able to service their equipment. Kii and D&D (for me) do not fall into this category and, as I said, I feel they are overpriced.

Thanks, yes I have (and took part in it!).

There is also Geithain speakers. They might also be ugly though (depending on your taste and the model).
Thanks, yes, I need to look at them as well.

Do you plan to always stay in a room similar in size?
Good question. For the time being yes, but a slightly oversize speaker (EQ'd to behave itself) that can fill a bigger room is my thinking. Of course whilst I suspect this will be a 'final speaker' I may have to revise this is things change dramatically.

I dont know about the sound pressures you need to achieve, but but since your room isn't that large, I would reconsider the sub and try a Genelec 8331A, 7350 sub and GLM combo. Small, elegant and lovely-sounding. Regarding reliability and serviceabilty, Genelec should be hard to beat. They are stubborn and proud Finns ;-) I'm Swedish but I sure trust them!
This is really interesting! I have dealer close by who has a used pair of Genelec 8351As and a pair of 7370A subs for £6k. Whilst this would see me using the plug-ugly 8351As and TWO subs (contradicting everything I want!) I suspect it is a great sounding combo!

Doug
 

Chromatischism

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#30
I'm keen to get back the space taken up by the sub. Plus, I feel an all-in-one loudspeaker should be inherently more coherent than a separate sub (from a different manufacturer).
I understand about the space requirements.

As someone who has spent considerable time dialing in multiple subwoofers (Rythmiks) placed strategically in the room, I have to disagree that they are less coherent. I've got everything working in lock step, to where simply adjusting my sub levels gets me more or less bass, but it doesn't lose alignment or composure.
 
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Jimshoe
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Thread Starter #31
Despite my reservations about the Dutch and Dutch 8C (reliability, overpriced) the recommendations here have prompted me to look further at them and they do seem to offer much that I want.

Frustratingly however an all white pair are priced at £8,932 direct from D&D but UK dealer price (for, I think, the cheaper standard finish) is listed by Purité for £10,950!

I queried this with D&D and was told they don't deliver to countries where they have dealers! Being forced to pay c.£2,000 over the odds kinda kills them for me. I know dealers will say the price includes set up etc - but, seriously, I can do that myself!

Doug
 

restorer-john

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#32
It is not in question if stuff from active loudspeakers will die but when, and what will be the manufacturers response after 10-15 years.
"sorry mate, parts are NLA (no longer available)"
 

restorer-john

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#33
I queried this with D&D and was told they don't deliver to countries where they have dealers! Being forced to pay c.£2,000 over the odds kinda kills them for me. I know dealers will say the price includes set up etc - but, seriously, I can do that myself!
Fair enough I say. Dealers have to buy with their own money, display, and demonstrate to a million tyre kickers and at the end of it, at the point of sale, should they have to compete with the manufacturer direct? No way.

Suppliers/Manufacturers are nothing without presence and products on the ground for people to see. So they have to support the dealers.

And you should too. A relationship with a B&M dealer means you get to see, hear, and play with stuff before everyone else. You get treated like a valued customer for sometimes decades. They will track you down something nobody else can find, just because they want your business and loyalty.

That's how I like it.
 

Purité Audio

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#34
Despite my reservations about the Dutch and Dutch 8C (reliability, overpriced) the recommendations here have prompted me to look further at them and they do seem to offer much that I want.

Frustratingly however an all white pair are priced at £8,932 direct from D&D but UK dealer price (for, I think, the cheaper standard finish) is listed by Purité for £10,950!

I queried this with D&D and was told they don't deliver to countries where they have dealers! Being forced to pay c.£2,000 over the odds kinda kills them for me. I know dealers will say the price includes set up etc - but, seriously, I can do that myself!

Doug
Jim where did you see the £8932 price?
The online price is €4938 per speaker, which does not include vat, which works out at exactly the same price.
Keith
 
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Jimshoe
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Thread Starter #35
Jim where did you see the £8932 price?
The online price is €4938 per speaker, which does not include vat, which works out at exactly the same price.
Keith
That is the price on D&D's online store.

The tax and duty calculator that D&D link to indicates no further tax or duty importing to UK. I concede this may not be correct however.

Jim
 
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Thread Starter #37

Purité Audio

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#38
Whilst not cheap, the 8Cs are a complete system in themselves just add source/s.
Ultimately value judgements are down to the individual.
Keith
 
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Jimshoe
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Thread Starter #40
Whilst not cheap, the 8Cs are a complete system in themselves just add source/s.
Ultimately value judgements are down to the individual.
Keith
Keith
Thanks, yes, I see that. I'm currently using active ATCs fed by a miniDSP SHD (with music server located elsewhere) so already down to very few boxes.
 
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