FIIO Warmer R2R DAC (with tube buffer)

[SMen]

I do take and fully accept your points above but...

I had a pair of once top notch active monitors with 12" bass drivers in a room arguably too small for them and believe me, the 'suspension of disbelief' vibe was VERY strong in these when playing well produced jazz and rock albums (ask my neighbours of the time - cough - ). They could do midrange 115dB in-room at a metre or two which was excruciatingly loud and I never thrashed them like this apart from 'proving a point' to myself. Love the memory and still grieve for their sale when I married... These days, my music reproduction just isn't the same, but I retain a much smaller-scale vintage rig which I use when I can, spending far too much time on here as compensation

There's a wonderful quality I like in my beer-budget SMSL dac reproduction which some call 'detail' and maybe others 'stark or clinical,' and that's the ability to hear deep into a mix, flutter-echo effects, double tracked instruments or vocals and general layering in a mix, even if the 'perspective' is artificial. Not sure if any 'one' measurement parameter covers this ability, but I sure as heck love the 'blend' of performance to enable me to do this better than the donor CD player alone, which itself was superb back in 1988 or so over more mundane players of the time. These days, low levels only!

I can't argue against 12" drivers... and having yesterday just got confirmation of my divorce (!) I think some nice big, efficient, blow the roof off jobs might be just the ticket!

They will probably sound more interesting at low volumes too... Certainly not going to argue against beer budget dacs either! I think often it is a case of 'don't blame the messenger' where it comes to comments about sound quality, while forgetting about sources actually sounding that way.

 

[DSJR]

I can't argue against 12" drivers... and having yesterday just got confirmation of my divorce (!) I think some nice big, efficient, blow the roof off jobs might be just the ticket!

They will probably sound more interesting at low volumes too... Certainly not going to argue against beer budget dacs either! I think often it is a case of 'don't blame the messenger' where it comes to comments about sound quality forgetting about sources actually sounding that way.

I once (very long time ago) attended a concert at the Festival Hall in London given by violinist Isaac Stern (my pal and I had favourite seats, central and eight or nine rows back from the front). His violin sounded terrible, as if it had a bad cold (I can't describe the timbre any other way ). Had I heard this instrument on a recording, I'd be blaming the system/speaker/my ears and all sorts, but no, that was how this particular violin sounded as played by this musician!

 

[Ropeburn]

I can't argue against 12" drivers... and having yesterday just got confirmation of my divorce (!) I think some nice big, efficient, blow the roof off jobs might be just the ticket!

I don't know whether congratulations are appropriate, but one thing is certain: I wish you much enjoyment of your freedom, brother!

 

[Hindsider85]

I can't argue against 12" drivers... and having yesterday just got confirmation of my divorce (!) I think some nice big, efficient, blow the roof off jobs might be just the ticket!

They will probably sound more interesting at low volumes too... Certainly not going to argue against beer budget dacs either! I think often it is a case of 'don't blame the messenger' where it comes to comments about sound quality, while forgetting about sources actually sounding that way.

Get yourself something nice as celebration. Maybe a nice REL subwoofer, or you could head out on a journey to get some magical vintage speakers, that collect dust in someones garage. The sky is the limit!

 

[NHL99]

Some copy-paste (edited) measurements

FiiO’s Warmer R2R DAC houses the holy trinity of audiophile catnip | Darko.Audio

An R2R DAC circuit, tubes and a mechanical VU meters.

darko.audio

 

[Jeromeof]

Some measurements

FiiO’s Warmer R2R DAC houses the holy trinity of audiophile catnip | Darko.Audio

An R2R DAC circuit, tubes and a mechanical VU meters.

darko.audio

Not really - that is just FiiO measurements republished on Darko website.

And that article didn't really say anything new as it just FiiO marketing content rewritten.

I agree with what Darko is saying about this being 'catnip' for many but that SINAD score will make people weep Pretty clear he is talking about ASR there.

Overall, I think FiiO have done a very clever thing here, it will never have good measurements or transparent sound (though I imagine with the 'OS mode' on it will be close). I went to Munich High end this year and there were rooms and rooms of nice looking DAC's and amplifiers that where 5 or 10 times the price of this and probably have worse measurements. So, I feel FiiO are just allowing those curious to get something that looks nice and not spend crazy amounts of money. Maybe this is the only money they will ever spend on a 'tube' or 'R2R sound' and they will then realize they actually want to listen without harmonics added.

 

[JSmith]

Some measurements

Nah Darko doesn't do measurements, he's just copied it from the FiiO page;

Desktop R2R Tube Buffer and DAC-WARMER R2R_parameters

The WARMER R2R draws its inspiration from the legacy of the timeless Hong Kong band, the Wynners. As its name suggests, the WARMER R2R DAC aims to infuse music with an invitingly warm and beautiful tube sound. From the mesmerizing sway of the vintage warm-hued VU meters to the golden pairing of...

www.fiio.com

JSmith

 

[SMen]

Get yourself something nice as celebration. Maybe a nice REL subwoofer, or you could head out on a journey to get some magical vintage speakers, that collect dust in someones garage. The sky is the limit!

Ha Ha !! I have two (almost REL) subwoofers ... MJ Acoustics ... and yup - I'm thinking of a nice ole pair of Triangle Celius! I just like that oversized midrange they have, and the efficiency. Thank you for the kind sentiments! Appreciated. I'm thinking I need two DACs to solve my own listening frustrations, so I kind of relate.

 

[Moon5123]

This is really confusing, if -72db is just 8 or 12 bit how it is able to represent full 16bits music as other dacs?

I have Fiio K11 R2R and SMSL Raw mda1 dac and both sound same to me on my speakers I cannot make any difference in term of details but sound stage is hari lined different not better or worse just different to me.

On headphones I noticed K11 are hair lined less detailed and grainy(I remember hearing the same grainy-ness on Earmen Tramp) than SMSL. That too was not easy to make out.
Is my equipment are not high end enough to hear differences? Or the worst for me my ear are damaged in some way
Using Kanto Ora4, Focal Clears, HD660S2, HD600, Blessings 2, Hype 4, etc

I am always buying gear hearing some reviewer says this sound this way but I when I get it I am disappointed.

I find easy difference in transducers but not in dacs all sound same to me with hair line difference until I change something with the amp. I told the same to an youtuber he told I need to have a golden ear like his to hear differences.

I guess I not even qualified as audiophile to understand all of this.

 

[Ropeburn]

This is really confusing, if -72db is just 8 or 12 bit how it is able to represent full 16bits music as other dacs?

That's simple: the processing for volume control is (usually) done in 32bit. Basically the system takes 16bit data, declares those the upper bits, and fills the lower 16 with zeroes. Then processes that now 32bit data, for volume control and maybe EQ and et cetera.

That's how you can attenuate 16bit data by a whole lot until you start to lose any of the actual input data.

-72dB is equivalent to "12 bits less". If you do that to technically 32bit data, you still got 20bit left, which is still more than the input data.

 

[Moon5123]

That's simple: the processing for volume control is (usually) done in 32bit. Basically the system takes 16bit data, declares those the upper bits, and fills the lower 16 with zeroes. Then processes that now 32bit data, for volume control and maybe EQ and et cetera.

That's how you can attenuate 16bit data by a whole lot until you start to lose any of the actual input data.

-72dB is equivalent to "12 bits less". If you do that to technically 32bit data, you still got 20bit left, which is still more than the input data.

That explains things thank you very much.

I have further doubt then how warmer will handle signals with 24bit depths, it is further oversampled it or something is that why people says NOS is a myth?

 

[SMen]

That explains things thank you very much.

I have further doubt then how warmer will handle signals with 24bit depths, it is further oversampled it or something is that why people says NOS is a myth?

I found this interesting - I am not sure anything has changed since it was written.
https://archimago.blogspot.com/2018/11/nos-vs-digital-filtering-dacs-exploring.html regarding NOS vs OS. It has been linked from ASR by others in other threads.

My understanding is these FiiOs will handle 24bit - I'm actually getting a K13 to try for the hell of it! I think the PEQ will at least be meaningfully useful.

I think though that you are also referring to the "n dB" dynamic range figures in terms of "bits" used in Amir's reviews? I don't fully understand this either - perhaps someone can explain or link to explanation. I looked it up in AI!

In ASR reviews, when you see “bits” mentioned alongside SINAD or signal‑to‑noise ratio, it’s shorthand for the effective number of bits (ENOB) that the DAC or ADC can actually resolve in practice. ...

• File bit depth= how much information is encoded (16‑bit, 24‑bit).
• Measured “bits” at ASR = how much of that information survives the conversion chain without being buried in noise/distortion.

So when ASR says a DAC has “14 bits of resolution,” they mean its measured SINAD corresponds to ~14 effective bits, not that it literally truncates your 24‑bit file.

Apparently. Hopefully this is on the right track. I am presuming it also applies to amplifier measurements also.

Post edit - I think it's a bit confusing where it comes to understanding mind you ... I listen to records and many, in terms of what I actually hear, sound pretty much identical to the digital equivalent master, and depending on the master can sound 'better' or 'worse'.

So I asked about this context and got this reply:

• A well‑cut, clean vinyl record played on a good turntable/cartridge system delivers about 10–11 effective bitsof resolution.
• That’s far below CD (16 bits ≈ 96 dB) or high‑res digital (20+ bits ≈ 120 dB+).

 

[Moon5123]

I found this interesting - I am not sure anything has changed since it was written.
https://archimago.blogspot.com/2018/11/nos-vs-digital-filtering-dacs-exploring.html regarding NOS vs OS. It has been linked from ASR by others in other threads.

My understanding is these FiiOs will handle 24bit - I'm actually getting a K13 to try for the hell of it! I think the PEQ will at least be meaningfully useful.

I think though that you are also referring to the "n dB" dynamic range figures in terms of "bits" used in Amir's reviews? I don't fully understand this either - perhaps someone can explain or link to explanation. I looked it up in AI!

In ASR reviews, when you see “bits” mentioned alongside SINAD or signal‑to‑noise ratio, it’s shorthand for the effective number of bits (ENOB) that the DAC or ADC can actually resolve in practice. ...

• File bit depth= how much information is encoded (16‑bit, 24‑bit).
• Measured “bits” at ASR = how much of that information survives the conversion chain without being buried in noise/distortion.

So when ASR says a DAC has “14 bits of resolution,” they mean its measured SINAD corresponds to ~14 effective bits, not that it literally truncates your 24‑bit file.

Apparently. Hopefully this is on the right track. I am presuming it also applies to amplifier measurements also.

Post edit - I think it's a bit confusing where it comes to understanding mind you ... I listen to records and many, in terms of what I actually hear, sound pretty much identical to the digital equivalent master, and depending on the master can sound 'better' or 'worse'.

So I asked about this context and got this reply:

• A well‑cut, clean vinyl record played on a good turntable/cartridge system delivers about 10–11 effective bitsof resolution.
• That’s far below CD (16 bits ≈ 96 dB) or high‑res digital (20+ bits ≈ 120 dB+).

Found on AI:

The Integrated Signal Processing Pipeline​

The digital signal path in the FiiO R2R devices is highly controlled. The incoming 24-bit data stream is routed through a USB interface processor to a digital audio bridge. Critically, before reaching the analog R2R array, the data is processed by an integrated FPGA (Field-Programmable Gate Array) and DSP system. This FPGA acts as the system’s digital backbone, managing signal processing, high-speed clocking, and data manipulation, ensuring the 24-bit input is prepared and synchronized for the physical conversion stage. This digital pre-processing is what allows the DAC to maintain the integrity of the 24-bit data until the final conversion step.

 

[robbiekhan]

Aesthetically, I find it truly spot-on.

The VuMeters are beautiful, with no buttons and just a simple knob.
Hardware-wise, I find it very curious.

It's a first: R2R with resistance and tubes combined, I'd never seen it before.

I'd buy one; it's worth the asking price just for the look and boldness

That is my view too, it is at present, one of a kind and looks fantastic and also sounds fantastic, and.... at a fantastic price. What is there not to like? I can't think of anything whatsoever. It runs hot, sure, but then again so did my old analogue amps. Currently listening to it via HE1000se and am in musical nirvana, clicking the output button on the A90D to switch to speakers continues that nirvana but this time it's filling the room holographically but completely natural sounding like my old 90s Rotels and NADs, just without all the analogue hiss that was common back then.

It's presenting sound in a way that exceeds any of the other DACs I have had or heard on the same gear.

 

[oldsysop]

 

[JSmith]

It's presenting sound in a way that exceeds any of the other DACs I have had or heard on the same gear.

Are you a shill?


JSmith

 

[robbiekhan]

No? I am just telling you what I am hearing, nothing more or less.

It should be pretty clear by now I trust my ears more than anything else if anyone has been in other threads.

 

[JSmith]

I am just telling you what I am hearing, nothing more or less.

Why though? No one is interested.

It should be pretty clear by now I trust my ears more than anything else if anyone has been in other threads.

What's that got to do with not posting baseless objective one liners?


JSmith

 

[robbiekhan]

That's great.

 

[Bud Spencer]

Master Contributor has something personal against you ?