FIIO Warmer R2R DAC (with tube buffer)

[LumiAudioNut]

FIIO just released a new R2R DAC with an internal tube buffer and VU meters (they appear to be analog meters, but I’m not positive) called “Warmer”.

The FIIO Warmer has been on the their official website less than 24 hours.

Go for a Bolder Flavor, FIIO R2R DAC + Tube Buffer WARMER R2R-FIIO---BORN FOR MUSIC

www.fiio.com

The price is just over$350.00 on Ali Express

Quoted from FIIO’s website (with all the usual marketing hyperbole):

This is an R2R DAC + tube amplifier! The WARMER R2R comes with three digital inputs of USB, optical and coaxial, two sets of line outputs of RCA and XLR, which contribute to flexible adaptation to your HiFi system.

The WARMER R2R introduces FIIO’s proprietary, four-way fully differential 24-bit R2R DAC, built with a total of 192 high-precision thin-film resistors (48 per channel) boasting 0.1% accuracy and an ultra-low drift of 30ppm. This gives the WARMER R2R its distinctly captivating sound signature. It even doubles the fun by applying both the NOS (non-oversampling) mode and OS (oversampling mode) mode.

Powering the tube buffer stage of the WARMER R2R are four brand-new JJ Electronic E88CC valves imported from Slovakia. The tubes are powered by a ±28V power supply and feature a long-lasting service life of 10000 hours. The core circuitry of the classic tube buffer preamplifier has been optimized to impart a sweet, organic tube flavor, giving your music a delightful richness and fullness.

The WARMER R2R introduces FIIO’s proprietary, four-way fully differential 24-bit R2R DAC, built with a total of 192 high-precision thin-film resistors (48 per channel) boasting 0.1% accuracy and an ultra-low drift of 30ppm. This gives the WARMER R2R its distinctly captivating sound signature. It even doubles the fun by applying both the NOS (non-oversampling) mode and OS (oversampling mode) mode.

 

[JSmith]

It even doubles the fun by applying both the NOS (non-oversampling) mode and OS (oversampling mode) mode.

NOS is not fun... NOS is simply broken.


JSmith

 

[Brian Hall]

The worst of both worlds. R2R and tubes. There are better options.

 

[qirex]

I must say they're nailing the enclosure design with this and the K17/15.

 

[oleg87]

I don't really get enclosing the tubes in a very ordinary-looking chassis - isn't the glowing glass bits part of the appeal?
Anyway, not a product for me.

 

[DVDdoug]

The worst of both worlds. R2R and tubes.

That's my feeling too.

I'm not saying it can't sound OK but it seems kind-of silly.

It cracks me up combing tubes from the 1950s with a DAC that has hundreds or thousands of transistors in the chip, plus usually some other solid state electronics.


BTW - 0.1% accuracy (1/1000) is about 10 bits! With 10-bits you can count to 1023. But with 16 or 24 bits you still get a lower noise floor (less quantization noise) even without the accuracy.

 

[voodooless]

BTW - 0.1% accuracy (1/1000) is about 10 bits! With 10-bits you can count to 1023. But with 16 or 24 bits you still get a lower noise floor (less quantization noise) even without the accuracy.

Actually using .1% accuracy and DEM you can get about 17 bits of resolution, maybe better with more tricks.

Here though, I don’t see a very advanced setup. It’s not a split ladder+thermometer type of setup, no trace length optimization, etc. I’d say this DAC would indeed do 10 to 12 bits at best.

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

I must admit, I love the look.

 

[spiritualgroundbeef]

Looks Cool. im no engineer but putting 4 tubes close to each other like that looks like a significant amount of heat.
This product just screams marketing department saying: "build a R2R dac with Tubes ASAP". doubt much long term testing was done on it.
Probably sounds like a overly buttered up waffle from waffle house which is ok sometimes but would get tiring if you consume it every day

 

[mhardy6647]

Looks Cool. im no engineer but putting 4 tubes close to each other like that looks like a significant amount of heat.
This product just screams marketing department saying: "build a R2R dac with Tubes ASAP". doubt much long term testing was done on it.
Probably sounds like a overly buttered up waffle from waffle house which is ok sometimes but would get tiring if you consume it every day

They are small signal tubes and should get only warm operating under typical conditions of plate voltage, bias, and current).
More ventilation, separation, and/or improved convection is always better, but they're probably fine in terms of heat production.

Power output tubes and HV rectifiers get hot.

 

[LumiAudioNut]

The worst of both worlds. R2R and tubes. There are better options.

I have no doubt, that from a measurement/objectivist point of view, it will fair quite poorly. However, I also have little doubt it will sell like hotcakes and make FIIO a ton of money (there is no shortage people that prefer the harmonic distortion that tubes sometimes provide).

 

[Power Pop 23]

I wonder if FiiO has trademarked the terms 'WARMER' and 'COOLER' to characterize their gear using vacuum tubes or not.

 

[wwenze]

Orange VU. Orange makes the sound warm.

 

[Mezz17]

The worst of both worlds. R2R and tubes. There are better options.

I was thinking of buying it. What other options can you give me?

 

[mhardy6647]

Orange VU. Orange makes the sound warm.

Totally... and that explains McIntosh, too... doesn't it?

 

[mhardy6647]

I wonder if FiiO has trademarked the terms 'WARMER' and 'COOLER' to characterize their gear using vacuum tubes or not.

Hope nobody tells them about cold cathode tubes... or the Korg NuTube in particular.

 

[Brian Hall]

I was thinking of buying it. What other options can you give me?

Something using current technology. There is nothing gained using R2R in 2025. I don't see any point in putting tubes in a DAC.

 

[Michou]

FIIO just released a new R2R DAC with an internal tube buffer and VU meters (they appear to be analog meters, but I’m not positive) called “Warmer”.

The FIIO Warmer has been on the their official website less than 24 hours.

Go for a Bolder Flavor, FIIO R2R DAC + Tube Buffer WARMER R2R-FIIO---BORN FOR MUSIC

www.fiio.com

The price is just over$350.00 on Ali Express

Quoted from FIIO’s website (with all the usual marketing hyperbole):

This is an R2R DAC + tube amplifier! The WARMER R2R comes with three digital inputs of USB, optical and coaxial, two sets of line outputs of RCA and XLR, which contribute to flexible adaptation to your HiFi system.

The WARMER R2R introduces FIIO’s proprietary, four-way fully differential 24-bit R2R DAC, built with a total of 192 high-precision thin-film resistors (48 per channel) boasting 0.1% accuracy and an ultra-low drift of 30ppm. This gives the WARMER R2R its distinctly captivating sound signature. It even doubles the fun by applying both the NOS (non-oversampling) mode and OS (oversampling mode) mode.

Powering the tube buffer stage of the WARMER R2R are four brand-new JJ Electronic E88CC valves imported from Slovakia. The tubes are powered by a ±28V power supply and feature a long-lasting service life of 10000 hours. The core circuitry of the classic tube buffer preamplifier has been optimized to impart a sweet, organic tube flavor, giving your music a delightful richness and fullness.

The WARMER R2R introduces FIIO’s proprietary, four-way fully differential 24-bit R2R DAC, built with a total of 192 high-precision thin-film resistors (48 per channel) boasting 0.1% accuracy and an ultra-low drift of 30ppm. This gives the WARMER R2R its distinctly captivating sound signature. It even doubles the fun by applying both the NOS (non-oversampling) mode and OS (oversampling mode) mode.

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That's a whole lot of marketing fluff for what’s basically a starved-plate trick. Plus minus 28V on an E88CC? That tube is meant to see around 90 to 100V at the very least, and it’s normally run well over 150 to 200V in proper audio gear. At 28 volts you’re not getting sweet, organic tube richness, you’re getting a tube that’s working miles outside its intended range.

At those voltages you end up with tiny headroom, extra distortion, and pretty much none of the real linearity the E88CC is known for. It’s more of a glowing decoration than a tube actually doing what it was designed to do.

And hyping up imported JJ valves doesn’t change the fact that the circuit isn’t giving them the voltage they need to perform properly. If they wanted a real tube buffer, they’d use a proper high-voltage supply, not this low-voltage gimmick dressed up as audio magic.

 

[mhardy6647]

That's a whole lot of marketing fluff for what’s basically a starved-plate trick. Plus minus 28V on an E88CC? That tube is meant to see around 90 to 100V at the very least, and it’s normally run well over 150 to 200V in proper audio gear. At 28 volts you’re not getting sweet, organic tube richness, you’re getting a tube that’s working miles outside its intended range.

Yes, indeed... the irony, of course, being that there was a whole family of tubes designed to operate (properly) using the "space charge" at low plate voltage (specifically the nominal 12 to 13 VDC supplied by an automobile battery). Those tubes will work much better at low plate voltages than will a "normal" (twin) triode like the E88CC!

Space Charge and Other Low-Voltage Tubes

Tube projects don't always require lethal voltages! Some tubes were designed to run at 12V. Others were not but work well anyway at B+ down to four volts.

www.junkbox.com

a little more context for those who crave such things at, e.g.:

Dayton Audio HTA20 Hybrid Tube Amp Review

This is fine, why would I buy a tube amp if not for the distortion and the funky FR? If I wanted performance and straight wire with gain, the 3e Audio A5 is about the same price and rolls all over it in any imaginable objective metric.

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[robbiekhan]

The worst of both worlds. R2R and tubes. There are better options.

Why so? I like R2R sound (well warm, smooth and wide sound signatures, none of this sterile analytical nonsense like with the DX5 II which I also bought), had the K11 R2R and now the K13 and both sound great for what they are (especially with a power supply upgrade on the K11 R2R). This sound very much suits my headphones, speakers and preference toward how music sounds most enjoyable.