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Fiio Q5s Portable DAC & THX Headphone Amp Review

AudioSceptic

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I really appreciate you bringing some sense into obsessing too much about measurements. In the end, it is about what we can actually hear and the subjective listening experience. I did buy the RME ADI-2 DAC because of ASR (and the plethora of features), even though I would have been perfectly happy with something like a JDS Labs Atom combo. Last year I bought and tried the FiiO K5 Pro, and shortly after I saw measurements of it, which were relatively poor compared to the competition. I was really surprised, because I could not hear any hint of distortion, even near full volume, yet the measurements show quite a bit of distortion. In fact it sounded exactly like the JDS Labs Atom + Tone Board I was using. Even using my 9 year old 4th gen iPod Touch, my IEMs still sound great even though it's probably not the best measuring device in the world.

I very much appreciate ASR and Amir for all the hard work with maintaining the site and the hundreds of measurements, because it prevented me from considering something god awful like an Audio-GD DAC/AMP, which I was actually considering before I joined ASR. But there is a point I agree that we need obsess a little less over achieving state of the art measurements and more on the actual listening experience. I do agree FiiO needs to step it up, especially considering their older Q1 MkII is the better performer in all areas except for power over the Q5s.
Don't be too sure about the iPod. They all measured well, even the original ones with disk drives.
<https://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/ipod-touch-4g.htm#perf>
<https://archimago.blogspot.com/2016/09/retro-measure-2006-apple-ipod-classic.html>
 

Bluess

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I am unsure then what you are saying, are you willing to take a chance on the M15 based on many user impressions and reviews that are very positive, or is the only important buying criteria the device being measured? Again, if something had measurement issues, but they were considered be not be audible issues, would you consider buying such a device?
The most important buying criteria is the measurements for me, I thought I made clear of that but never mind. The first reason I was thinking of getting the M15 was due to the big massive power output to drive my 600ohm headphones, big battery and decent measurements according to the manufacturer's specifications and it's past reputation with good measurements devices. But after seeing the performance of Q5s, I'm being skeptical. Also for that kind of price I would like the performance to be great otherwise there's no meaning to pay that much at all.
 

PeteL

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Don't be too sure about the iPod. They all measured well, even the original ones with disk drives.
<https://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/ipod-touch-4g.htm#perf>
<https://archimago.blogspot.com/2016/09/retro-measure-2006-apple-ipod-classic.html>
Both these measurments shows measurments of output impedance higher than 7 ohms, and up to 11 ohms. And up to 23 ohms at 20 hz.This is problematic since most iem have nominal impedance of 16 or 32 ohms, the frequency response would be impacted. Also, no measure of output power, measuring 1 v rms for a sine wave is an insufficient measurment. Most people will look at sensitivity of headphones and will say, ok this can put out 100 dB spl with one mW, but this is also incorrect. It's important to remind ourself that this is a measure for a 1 k waveform, and that a spl measurment is a rms value. Also remember than each peak 10 dB louder than what is your listening volume means needing instantaneous power spikes that are ten times than what it is using continuously.
 

AudioSceptic

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Both these measurments shows measurments of output impedance higher than 7 ohms, and up to 11 ohms. And up to 23 ohms at 20 hz.This is problematic since most iem have nominal impedance of 16 or 32 ohms, the frequency response would be impacted. Also, no measure of output power, measuring 1 v rms for a sine wave is an insufficient measurment. Most people will look at sensitivity of headphones and will say, ok this can put out 100 dB spl with one mW, but this is also incorrect. It's important to remind ourself that this is a measure for a 1 k waveform, and that a spl measurment is a rms value. Also remember than each peak 10 dB louder than what is your listening volume means needing instantaneous power spikes that are ten times than what it is using continuously.
Correct, but the context is that most devices measure worse, and the output impedance issue was dealt with in later models. In any case, both the impedance and power issues are dealt with by using a portable amp *if* required, and not by spending money on another DAC which will probably perform worse. Let us not forget how poor the Q5s is, and all for a paltry $300 (or $450 with the extra poor THX module).
 

AudioSceptic

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The most important buying criteria is the measurements for me, I thought I made clear of that but never mind. The first reason I was thinking of getting the M15 was due to the big massive power output to drive my 600ohm headphones, big battery and decent measurements according to the manufacturer's specifications and it's past reputation with good measurements devices. But after seeing the performance of Q5s, I'm being skeptical. Also for that kind of price I would like the performance to be great otherwise there's no meaning to pay that much at all.
That thing costs over $1k. Surely it would make much more sense to buy a good portable amp to use with your existing source/DAC?
 

A Surfer

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The most important buying criteria is the measurements for me, I thought I made clear of that but never mind. The first reason I was thinking of getting the M15 was due to the big massive power output to drive my 600ohm headphones, big battery and decent measurements according to the manufacturer's specifications and it's past reputation with good measurements devices. But after seeing the performance of Q5s, I'm being skeptical. Also for that kind of price I would like the performance to be great otherwise there's no meaning to pay that much at all.
Thanks for the clarity. So even if the measurements in question indicated that any issues were not audible you would pass on the device that is only designed for audible use? And I am speaking in general, not about the M15.
 

PeteL

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That thing costs over $1k. Surely it would make much more sense to buy a good portable amp to use with your existing source/DAC?
I agree that the problem with general use portable devices are generally not bottlenecked by the performance of the DAC, In fact I have never really agreed on the necessity of having a "line out" on more expensive audio player. Double amping is a non issue,when you connect a smartphone output to a line in, you are not amping anything and it's perfectly fine, but when it comes to feeding actual transducers that need to reproduce music, most smartphones or ipod are clearly inferior devices than dedicated amplifiers, and it's audible even on highly efficient earphones
 

AudioSceptic

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I agree that the problem with general use portable devices are generally not bottlenecked by the performance of the DAC, In fact I have never really agreed on the necessity of having a "line out" on more expensive audio player. Double amping is a non issue,when you connect a smartphone output to a line in, you are not amping anything and it's perfectly fine, but when it comes to feeding actual transducers that need to reproduce music, most smartphones or ipod are clearly inferior devices than dedicated amplifiers, and it's audible even on highly efficient earphones
Right, so a good amp improves a smartphone. Still no need for another DAC.
 

Bluess

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Thanks for the clarity. So even if the measurements in question indicated that any issues were not audible you would pass on the device that is only designed for audible use? And I am speaking in general, not about the M15.
In general, yes also applied for M15. Why would I want to pay a few hundreds dollars or more for a device that is only for audiable use but performs no better than my phone?
 

AudioSceptic

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Is there anything that's capable of driving a 600ohm headphone with good measurements and portable within m15 price range and below?
Chord Mojo? Topping NX3s? Neither is perfect, but until it's measured, how do we know that the M15 meets its spec?
 

Veri

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Is there anything that's capable of driving a 600ohm headphone with good measurements and portable within m15 price range and below?
Fiio K5 or Topping NX3 with a 2V dongle like a hidisz or a meizu. Or Topping NX4 as all-in-one. I'm sure there's others...
 

Veri

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That's why I put off the purchase for M15 for now. The Mojo seems to fit the bill and pretty cheap for a secondhand unit at where I live
A Mojo successor (Mojo2? Mojojo?) with better battery and performance, plus maybe USB-C should really be out already... I don't get why Chord is not on this, surely the portable market is a highly profitable one..? As it stands the original Mojo is not that competitive anymore for its price, especially considering the inconsistent performance during Amir's measurement of it, as well as battery problems owners complain about.
 

Tircuit

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Nx4 is a very good option indeed, totally forgot about that one

Fiio Q1mk11 with balanced cables. Comes to same price as nx4 with slightly better measurements and is Apple certified.
 

AudioSceptic

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A Mojo successor (Mojo2? Mojojo?) with better battery and performance, plus maybe USB-C should really be out already... I don't get why Chord is not on this, surely the portable market is a highly profitable one..? As it stands the original Mojo is not that competitive anymore for its price, especially considering the inconsistent performance during Amir's measurement of it, as well as battery problems owners complain about.
Amir was hard on the Mojo, and I suspect that was partly in response to its audiophile reputation and high price. For ½ the price used it makes more sense, and I wouldn't bet on the M15 being any better.
 

Veri

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Amir was hard on the Mojo, and I suspect that was partly in response to its audiophile reputation and high price. For ½ the price used it makes more sense, and I wouldn't bet on the M15 being any better.
Used it is a good bet, I just don't like the forum posts from people having the battery die. I wouldn't recommend a device with issues like that.
 

AudioSceptic

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Are the batteries replaceable on the Mojo? If not, I just don't know why on Earth would anyone buy a used battery-powered device? Especially one that has been on the market for so long. So they have to replace it in a year?
Is it any worse than any other portable DAC/amp in terms of battery life and ease of changing that battery? Most phones these days also have batteries not designed for easy replacement.
 
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