Fiio Q5s Portable DAC & THX Headphone Amp Review

[bahamot]

I'd like to see that too, and don't want to answer for Amir, but I do know that the Bluetooth module for theAPx555 is a considerable investment. The Price list is not freely available, but If I try to extrapolate based on what it costed me to rent one for a month, not cheap. Yes you could download test files to a Bluetooth source, but then you induce all kind of uncertainties in the measurments, making them of little value.

Amir said the BT module is USD6,100

 

[AudioSceptic]

Yikes, I get that the major issues seen here aren't audible, which might explain why I have generally enjoyed the Q5s/AM3D combination using the 4.4mm balanced input, but you would really expect/demand better engineering from FiiO. This is indeed a disappointment, but I am extremely glad that I sent the Q5s and AM3D to ASR to be measured.

Subjectively it does sound nice with my Edition X V2 and the Pioneer SE Monitor 5 that I have used with the balanced out, but that is still no excuse for results like this. FiiO, seriously, you should do much better work than this. Thank you to Amir for the disproportionately hard work that he had to put into this review. Now we know.

I've always struggled to understand the market for devices like this. It has a battery so it's portable but is not a player so you also need a portable source. What are the sources for your music when using this?

 

[Asylum Seeker]

I've always struggled to understand the market for devices like this. It has a battery so it's portable but is not a player so you also need a portable source. What are the sources for your music when using this?

The device that you carry with you everywhere and all the time, your Smartphone.

 

[A Surfer]

I've always struggled to understand the market for devices like this. It has a battery so it's portable but is not a player so you also need a portable source. What are the sources for your music when using this?

As mentioned above, for me it is the smartphone and there still is a great case for such devices. I used the Q5s for both in-home portability needs, and for instance if I was going somewhere where I wanted great fidelity in a small footprint. Sometimes I would sleep over at my brothers place and bring along a nice headphone and the Q5s. With my smartphone I had a solid system available to me and I had to carry the phone anyway.

 

[Bluess]

I was planning to buy a M15 for on the go listening but after reading this. I guess I should wait for M15 review.

 

[A Surfer]

I was planning to buy a M15 for on the go listening but after reading this. I guess I should wait for M15 review.

It will only get reviewed if somebody sends it in so you will likely be waiting for a long time.

 

[AudioSceptic]

The device that you carry with you everywhere and all the time, your Smartphone.

And how does it improve on the output of your smartphone? It must make a big difference to be worth the hassle of carrying it around (and charging it when required).

 

[AudioSceptic]

As mentioned above, for me it is the smartphone and there still is a great case for such devices. I used the Q5s for both in-home portability needs, and for instance if I was going somewhere where I wanted great fidelity in a small footprint. Sometimes I would sleep over at my brothers place and bring along a nice headphone and the Q5s. With my smartphone I had a solid system available to me and I had to carry the phone anyway.

See my reply to Asylum Seeker.

 

[AudioSceptic]

Ugh! Better off with a $9 Apple dongle and a $69 NX3s (particularly with planar headphone like my HE400i).

And you only need the NX3s if the Apple adapter doesn't have enough power. I take it that the HE400i does need that power?

 

[Asylum Seeker]

And how does it improve on the output of your smartphone? It must make a big difference to be worth the hassle of carrying it around (and charging it when required).

Well, it depends on your phone and headphone. Some phones have no headphone jack at all, or the sound quality is noticeably deficient, or has little power. And no phone is gonna be able to drive power hungry or high impedance headphones. Still plenty of instances where portable DAC|Amps are desirable. You can have a great sounding portable rig everywhere you go.

 

[AudioSceptic]

Well, it depends on your phone and headphone. Some phones have no headphone jack at all, or the sound quality is noticeably deficient, or has little power. And no phone is gonna be able to drive power hungry or high impedance headphones. Still plenty of instances where DAC|Amps are needed or desirable. You can have a great sounding portable rig everywhere you go.

OK. So let's take the Apple adapter as representing good quality smartphone audio (and better than many other devices regardless of cost). Any iPhone has the same quality, either through the headphone socket (older models) or with the Lightning version of this adapter. Other phones can use the USB-C version (or other similar low cost devices). The issue then becomes power, and I can see a need for that with power-hungry phones, but it seems to me that a better solution is more efficient phones or IEMs. If that's not an option, you only need a good portable amp. On top of all this we have the issue of ambient noise. Just how much quality is required in a portable device?

 

[raif71]

At this price I might as well buy the hiby r5 and get a screen. That thing does have power output.

Gotta agree with you there... the power out of the Hiby R5 definitely is better than the Q5s (I have both). This is the impression I get comparing the 4.4mm balanced out of both devices.

 

[PeteL]

Well, it depends on your phone and headphone. Some phones have no headphone jack at all, or the sound quality is noticeably deficient, or has little power. And no phone is gonna be able to drive power hungry or high impedance headphones. Still plenty of instances where portable DAC|Amps are desirable. You can have a great sounding portable rig everywhere you go.

In my experience, even for easy to drive headphones or IEMs, most smartphones output are power shy, and I'd like to see some measured here but when you can supply 5 or 10 mW per channel (32 ohms), ok you'll be able to make those earbuds loud, but the headroom is simply not enough and on the most dynamic recordings the High amplitude transients will be limited, and the reproduction in the bass region will suffer. Again, here some people will tell you than smartphone output is "transparent". Well maybe so if you listen to sine waves, but when recordings are bass heavy and have peaks about 15 to 20 dB above the rms level, sorry but 10 mW (32 ohms) can't amplify that transparently

 

[A Surfer]

How is the software on the Hiby? I have read mixed reviews about it.

 

[Bluess]

It will only get reviewed if somebody sends it in so you will likely be waiting for a long time.

Not a problem really, at least I need to know I get what I paid for. Meanwhile, I'm carrying my desktop setup to work everyday

 

[A Surfer]

Not a problem really, at least I need to know I get what I paid for. Meanwhile, I'm carrying my desktop setup to work everyday

I guess you need to define for yourself what it is that constitutes getting what you paid for. Consider that technical engineering perfection does not always align with the subjective use and pleasure you get from a device. In the end will you listen to the M15 or will you measure it?

Given that you will listen to it are you willing to accept the listening impressions of literally hundreds of users and reviewers who really like the M15 and have experience with other devices? Clearly you know that there exists a chance that the M15 will have measurement issues, but you also must know that that is true for every single device that hasn't been measured. For all you know unless your desktop rig has been measured it could be worse than the M15.

We have seen that even very well regarded expensive gear across all manufacturers has produced measurement duds and busts, yet still subjectively been enjoyed. So again, given that all gear out there is likely to have some measurement issues, in particular DAPs which are tasked with doing so much in such a small footprint, are you interested in listening to music or simply looking at technical data? Amir is clear that in many cases the technical issues he reveals will not translate to audible issues, or if so, in very specific cases. Are you willing to buy nothing simply because it may have inaudible flaws? I would bet that the majority of DAPs would have some pretty interesting measured results.

I am not challenging you as there is no right or wrong. I am merely suggesting that there are two very valid perspectives. All else being equal I absolutely prefer the devices that I buy to be technically competent, but I am also being realistic and accepting that there will almost always be some kind of compromise that I need consider. A DAP is a hyper-complex device, essentially an entire audio system that you can hold in the palm of your hand, and often tasked with also being asked to be a standalone DAC or amp. Tall order to fill so again I ask, if the DAP is widely regarded as sounding very good, has a solid user interface what level of technical measurement compromises are reasonable to accept? If we wait for the perfect measuring DAP that is also a well designed device from a usability perspective, not sure that is likely. I could be wrong of course, but I follow many DAP threads and it is very common to read of great technical devices with crappy user interfaces or devices with a great UI, but not as technically competent. What trade off are you unwilling to make? What measurements specifically must the M15 adhere to for you?

Again, I am asking this not to challenge, but more of a thought experiment. I am actually curious to learn what it is that you most fear will be wrong with the M15 and what measurement thresholds for the criterion you will look at.

 

[Nango]

It will only get reviewed if somebody sends it in so you will likely be waiting for a long time.

If Fiio is interested in reverting this severe loss of reputation they should send in asap the best mobile device they currently have on sale, that is the M15.

 

[DivineCurrent]

I guess you need to define for yourself what it is that constitutes getting what you paid for. Consider that technical engineering perfection does not always align with the subjective use and pleasure you get from a device. In the end will you listen to the M15 or will you measure it?

Given that you will listen to it are you willing to accept the listening impressions of literally hundreds of users and reviewers who really like the M15 and have experience with other devices? Clearly you know that there exists a chance that the M15 will have measurement issues, but you also must know that that is true for every single device that hasn't been measured. For all you know unless your desktop rig has been measured it could be worse than the M15.

I really appreciate you bringing some sense into obsessing too much about measurements. In the end, it is about what we can actually hear and the subjective listening experience. I did buy the RME ADI-2 DAC because of ASR (and the plethora of features), even though I would have been perfectly happy with something like a JDS Labs Atom combo. Last year I bought and tried the FiiO K5 Pro, and shortly after I saw measurements of it, which were relatively poor compared to the competition. I was really surprised, because I could not hear any hint of distortion, even near full volume, yet the measurements show quite a bit of distortion. In fact it sounded exactly like the JDS Labs Atom + Tone Board I was using. Even using my 9 year old 4th gen iPod Touch, my IEMs still sound great even though it's probably not the best measuring device in the world.

I very much appreciate ASR and Amir for all the hard work with maintaining the site and the hundreds of measurements, because it prevented me from considering something god awful like an Audio-GD DAC/AMP, which I was actually considering before I joined ASR. But there is a point I agree that we need obsess a little less over achieving state of the art measurements and more on the actual listening experience. I do agree FiiO needs to step it up, especially considering their older Q1 MkII is the better performer in all areas except for power over the Q5s.

 

[Bluess]

I guess you need to define for yourself what it is that constitutes getting what you paid for. Consider that technical engineering perfection does not always align with the subjective use and pleasure you get from a device. In the end will you listen to the M15 or will you measure it?

Given that you will listen to it are you willing to accept the listening impressions of literally hundreds of users and reviewers who really like the M15 and have experience with other devices? Clearly you know that there exists a chance that the M15 will have measurement issues, but you also must know that that is true for every single device that hasn't been measured. For all you know unless your desktop rig has been measured it could be worse than the M15.

We have seen that even very well regarded expensive gear across all manufacturers has produced measurement duds and busts, yet still subjectively been enjoyed. So again, given that all gear out there is likely to have some measurement issues, in particular DAPs which are tasked with doing so much in such a small footprint, are you interested in listening to music or simply looking at technical data? Amir is clear that in many cases the technical issues he reveals will not translate to audible issues, or if so, in very specific cases. Are you willing to buy nothing simply because it may have inaudible flaws? I would bet that the majority of DAPs would have some pretty interesting measured results.

I am not challenging you as there is no right or wrong. I am merely suggesting that there are two very valid perspectives. All else being equal I absolutely prefer the devices that I buy to be technically competent, but I am also being realistic and accepting that there will almost always be some kind of compromise that I need consider. A DAP is a hyper-complex device, essentially an entire audio system that you can hold in the palm of your hand, and often tasked with also being asked to be a standalone DAC or amp. Tall order to fill so again I ask, if the DAP is widely regarded as sounding very good, has a solid user interface what level of technical measurement compromises are reasonable to accept? If we wait for the perfect measuring DAP that is also a well designed device from a usability perspective, not sure that is likely. I could be wrong of course, but I follow many DAP threads and it is very common to read of great technical devices with crappy user interfaces or devices with a great UI, but not as technically competent. What trade off are you unwilling to make? What measurements specifically must the M15 adhere to for you?

Again, I am asking this not to challenge, but more of a thought experiment. I am actually curious to learn what it is that you most fear will be wrong with the M15 and what measurement thresholds for the criterion you will look at.

That's a long post there. I'm doing a blind buy since there's no stock for me to do a demo with the headphone that I am using and my past experience with good measurements devices turns out to be excellent so there's no doubt that a good measurements device giving ****** sound quality.
For the UI, it's running Android so there's no problem. If I don't like the default music app interface I can always install a different one.

 

[A Surfer]

That's a long post there. I'm doing a blind buy since there's no stock for me to do a demo with the headphone that I am using and my past experience with good measurements devices turns out to be excellent so there's no doubt that a good measurements device giving ****** sound quality.
For the UI, it's running Android so there's no problem. If I don't like the default music app interface I can always install a different one.

I am unsure then what you are saying, are you willing to take a chance on the M15 based on many user impressions and reviews that are very positive, or is the only important buying criteria the device being measured? Again, if something had measurement issues, but they were considered be not be audible issues, would you consider buying such a device?