I'm not optimistic given he said he doesn't care about measurements. It's interesting though.
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Fiio Q5s Portable DAC & THX Headphone Amp Review
- Thread starter amirm
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Erispedia
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I’m not optimistic either about the audio performance, lol. But that parametric EQ tho. That will solve a lot of (my) problems.
{might get shot for that} honestly, i'm kind of relieved how this panned out. was waiting and waiting for the review, but during confinement, actually bought one as it was the only one realistically available (shipping out of the question). Although it measures so poorly, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. it sounds great, it powers my he400i perfectly, no noise on hiss on my iems. the features are killer and is built really well.
i know there are numerous school of thoughts on "the internet", headfi, asmr, reddit.... now i can confirm for myself that just appearing bad on a graph or chart does not mean that the product is broken. same as the fiio k3, shit review here, but does it's job.
some people are bashing the product as a total failure, nonetheless as an ACTUAL USER of it, it is great. are there micro details (hiss, jitter etc) i fail to hear? great it means i'm ageing like a normal human
there are also other elements, like the rave reviews of the e1da 9038 (planning one soon as i want an ultra portable option). it measures fantastic! but if you change modes, you could potentially blow out a driver, it massively drains battery, you cant eq on it, bummer if you have both 3.5 and 2.5mm iems... so it measures great but is is fully featured?
all in all, i am writing this mainly for the owners of the q5s, the product is NOT broken and works PERFECTLY well. i saw someone who wants to return his because of the charts.. did it really sound that bad if you hadnt seen the charts?
i know there are numerous school of thoughts on "the internet", headfi, asmr, reddit.... now i can confirm for myself that just appearing bad on a graph or chart does not mean that the product is broken. same as the fiio k3, shit review here, but does it's job.
some people are bashing the product as a total failure, nonetheless as an ACTUAL USER of it, it is great. are there micro details (hiss, jitter etc) i fail to hear? great it means i'm ageing like a normal human
there are also other elements, like the rave reviews of the e1da 9038 (planning one soon as i want an ultra portable option). it measures fantastic! but if you change modes, you could potentially blow out a driver, it massively drains battery, you cant eq on it, bummer if you have both 3.5 and 2.5mm iems... so it measures great but is is fully featured?
all in all, i am writing this mainly for the owners of the q5s, the product is NOT broken and works PERFECTLY well. i saw someone who wants to return his because of the charts.. did it really sound that bad if you hadnt seen the charts?
For me the DAC is a non issue, but the lack of power is very real. Also it heats up considerable and uses old micro USB, it's kinda big and batter life is not that great. For 350 USD (which was the original MSRP) I think you could do better. Even Fiio has a better product in the BTR5 which is less 130 USD. If you don't need Bluetooth there are even more options...
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The specs for the new FiiO Q3 is looking alarmingly similar to the Q5s in terms of distortion around 20Hz. In fact, the Q3 seems to have a strange rise at 15kHz that is absent from the Q5s. Not looking good, I hope it's just a fluke:
Q3:
Q5s:
Other specs and graphs: https://www.fiio.com/q3_parameters
Q3:
Q5s:
Other specs and graphs: https://www.fiio.com/q3_parameters
I don't think the method to simulate jitter there is correct.
This one seems more realistic: DEMO / MUSINGS: Let's listen to some jitter simulations with sideband distortions...
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News about a USB-C refresh of the Q5s, maybe with better measurements?
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fiio-q5s-type-c-flagship-bluetooth-dsd-dac-amp.946155/
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fiio-q5s-type-c-flagship-bluetooth-dsd-dac-amp.946155/
Only if FiiO listened. I am actually not very impressed with how silent FiiO has been. Over at head-fi.org I have nicely asked them to discuss the findings of Amir and they simply refuse to even acknowledge the questions/comments. I have been a big and vocal fan of FiiO over the years but I am not sure I would spend money on their gear again given how they hide their head in the sand when publicly asked for input on anything that isn't positive. I find companies that hide from respectful critiques and calls to account cowardly and not really deserving of my support. FiiO needs to admit the issues, own it and make good on them just as Schiit has done. IMO.
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So, I got their Q3 a few weeks ago, but I didn't use it after the second day of owning it. Why? Well, because I used the balanced output once, and it caused some very concerning loud popping sounds in my Sundara after adjusting the volume. I think it's too late for me to return it, but I don't really trust FiiO anymore, not when something like that happens.
raif71
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It could be the culture, the language barrier or both in the sense that silent may be better? In this regard, I think Topping benefit from having people like @JohnYang1997 that understand both sides and acts as a medium between cultures or bridge between customers and company.
Bummer, hopefully it is something that a firmware update may address.
I actually do suspect that it might be a differ in business culture as you say. Regardless, I find it maddening when a company assumes that by burying their head they can side step addressing issues. I have now because of FiiO's woefully public engagement on the issue really taken an active role on head-fi making sure that FiiO is uncomfortable. As a long time member there with almost 12 000 posts I make sure to mention the Q5s testing results in every single FiiO new product announcement thread. Either they accept the risk of losing some sales and consumer confidence or they eventually start the process of addressing the issues that Amir raised with the Q5s.
pompecukor
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Nope, that is definitely not it. They have not problem posting and replying everyday in English on Head-fi.
Only thing is the always skip anything with reference to this topic, and answer everyone one else. Just pretend that it does not exist. Hoping that people like A Surfer would just....go away.
I am happy they don't. They should be called out.
Absolutely, I have posted in every FiiO thread in head-fi about the Q5s or any new product where they are making claims. I try to be respectful but they are just simply ignoring things and hoping that it will go away. I know that I am unlikely at this point to buy FiiO products again. Their claims do not always match what measurements show and rather than have the courage to own things in public they chose to ignore. Not something that makes me want to support them, and I used to be a big FiiO fan having purchased at least 5 products from them.
I read the whole thread and not one person mentioned the fact that ASR only measured this with the super slow roll off filter. Default is the sharp fast roll off filter. The super slow roll off filter will have the most impact on frequency response and have the most noise/artifacts (sharp roll off is the most opposite and btw has the most pre ringing and 2nd post ringing, short delay sharp roll off has the most post ringing which is fine cause it can sound natural like adding in a little reverb).
Super slow starts at 5k hz and has treble shelf of around -3 to -6 (depending on the filter) db reduction up to 10k hz, then it starts to slowly roll off and falls off around 15k hz.
Slow can start around 10 or 15k hz at rolls off slowly past that.
Sharp (aka fast) usually starts around 17-18k hz and rolls off very sharp/fast
Also how do we know the reviewed unit is not a dud? Because plenty of people claim they think their fiio products work and sound just fine/good.
Super slow starts at 5k hz and has treble shelf of around -3 to -6 (depending on the filter) db reduction up to 10k hz, then it starts to slowly roll off and falls off around 15k hz.
Slow can start around 10 or 15k hz at rolls off slowly past that.
Sharp (aka fast) usually starts around 17-18k hz and rolls off very sharp/fast
Also how do we know the reviewed unit is not a dud? Because plenty of people claim they think their fiio products work and sound just fine/good.
Veri
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That could always be the case... but here he measured two samples of Q5s, not just one.
Fiio stuff has always been famously known to have 'warm' sound from the very beginning and people also love their tubes despite their objectively bad measurements so it's not like these two things cannot coexist.
I think Fiio choose to keep with their niche because that's clearly working for them and a subset of people who prefer that. That's fine I guess, at least those who wish for more objective takes on things have sites like ASR to refer to thankfully.
I think Fiio choose to keep with their niche because that's clearly working for them and a subset of people who prefer that. That's fine I guess, at least those who wish for more objective takes on things have sites like ASR to refer to thankfully.
Veri
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I don't really believe that. This one showed no real flaws at all:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../fiio-a5-portable-headphone-amp-review.10468/
The fiio a5 is a amplifier only and has no DAC built in. So what source was it hooked up to?
Would like to see a measurement of the fiio q5s with fast roll off filter (usb input, headphone out se+bal) vs a measurement where you use the line in instead (3.5mm line input, hooked up to a dac that will not bottleneck the amp, headphone out se+bal).
I actually forgot to mention this. The measurements as of right now show that the headphone out (either if this was tested with or without the included dac) measures much better and I would say also has no major flaws
than when he measured the line out (dac signal only) which shows the super slow roll off filter which is the cause of these flaws?
Would like to see a measurement of the fiio q5s with fast roll off filter (usb input, headphone out se+bal) vs a measurement where you use the line in instead (3.5mm line input, hooked up to a dac that will not bottleneck the amp, headphone out se+bal).
I actually forgot to mention this. The measurements as of right now show that the headphone out (either if this was tested with or without the included dac) measures much better and I would say also has no major flaws
than when he measured the line out (dac signal only) which shows the super slow roll off filter which is the cause of these flaws?
Yeah not saying that they can't make good measuring gear, more like they're not making it as their mission like say, Topping or SMSL. These popular products are received fine by the community despite so-so measurements:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...iew-and-measurements-of-fiio-k3-dac-amp.6859/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...iio-d5-dac-headphone-amp-and-adc-review.9507/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../review-and-measurements-of-fiio-k5-pro.9118/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-mark-ii-portable-dac-and-headphone-amp.4074/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...dslabs-odac-rev-b-compared-to-fiio-e10k.2068/
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