Fiio K17 - DAC, headphone amp, streamer

[Ongii]

Yeah, a shame really—both brands genuinely disrupted the market and raised the bar for price-to-performance. It’s just frustrating to see them stumble on things like QC and long-term support.

What's your view on company Luxsin?

 

[Chagall]

What's your view on company Luxsin?

Luxsin or Luxury Sine is a new brand, currently offering one product. Sub-brand of Zidoo (Eversolo). I think it's too early to make any judgments - time will tell. On the positive side, they are active in the X9 thread.

 

[Ongii]

Does somewhere exist a list of known (open) bugs?

 

[Deleted member 87496]

Ok, if you are too lazy to go to the site: https://www.fiio.com/k17_parameters

View attachment 445201

Please kindly read the rules of this community. Personal criticisms are in violation of them.

 

[Deleted member 87496]

That's a problem, because?... What would you connect it to? Serious question...

Rocksteady, you liked above posts by RogerSmith in which he leveled personal criticisms at another posting here ("lazy" "[cognitively] limited"). Please kindly read the rules of this community as such personal insults are in violation of them. If I've read the forum's rules correctly, we are encouraged to address others as we wished to be addressed, i.e. the rules apply to all. Thank you.

 

[Chagall]

Rocksteady, you liked above posts by RogerSmith in which he leveled personal criticisms at another posting here ("lazy" "[cognitively] limited"). Please kindly read the rules of this community as such personal insults are in violation of them. If I've read the forum's rules correctly, we are encouraged to address others as we wished to be addressed, i.e. the rules apply to all. Thank you.

This is great!

Although, lazy is not the same as cognitively limited. Being lazy is a choice.

 

[Deleted member 87496]

This is great!

Although, lazy is not the same as cognitively limited. Being lazy is a choice.

Thanks! Choice? Maybe, maybe not. Check out Robert Sapolsky's (neuroscientist from Berkley- he's brilliant and hilarious to boot) book "Determined" for an engaging and logical discussion how much choice is left to our neurologies. Imho, he has not solved the question of free will, but as scientists tend to do, cogently challenges our most commonsense, treasured beliefs and truths (Einstein anyone!?).

Whatever the case, if we're aware of the rules in this forum, we might better abide by them. So, in the Terms and Rules (link below), "You agree to not use the Service to submit or link to any Content which is defamatory, abusive, hateful, threatening, spam or spam-like, likely to offend..." Pejorative comments are always likely to offend. I saw one ASR thread in which someone responded, "Nonsense" to another's post, and the moderator called him out on it, asked him to be more civil. Nice is nice. And why not, even if everything is already determined? Peace, bro!

 

[rocksteady]

Rocksteady, you liked above posts by RogerSmith in which he leveled personal criticisms at another posting here ("lazy" "[cognitively] limited"). Please kindly read the rules of this community as such personal insults are in violation of them. If I've read the forum's rules correctly, we are encouraged to address others as we wished to be addressed, i.e. the rules apply to all. Thank you.

I find it quite incredible that you've gave yourself the trouble of sending me a lengthy rebuke of my "liking" two posts. Last time I checked, I'm still Free to like whatever I want, and we don't live (yet) in a totalitarian, censoring WWW, or platform, in this case. Are you a moderator? I suggest leaving the moderation to those that are. It's up to them to decide if those two posts are considered offensive and act accordingly. Have a nice day...

 

[Deleted member 87496]

I find it quite incredible that you've gave yourself the trouble of sending me a lengthy rebuke of my "liking" two posts. Last time I checked, I'm still Free to like whatever I want, and we don't live (yet) in a totalitarian, censoring WWW, or platform, in this case. Are you a moderator? I suggest leaving the moderation to those that are. It's up to them to decide if those two posts are considered offensive and act accordingly. Have a nice day...

I now believe you're right, so my deepest apologies for being presumptuous. Feedback like I provided definitely belongs to a moderator. But to better explain...I have a dear family member whose child has a significant intellectual disability, so found that comment to be offensive and actually painful and despressing. Thankfully, people don't typically use the "R" word anymore (as they readily did in my youth), but other expressions meaning the same thing are equally unfortunate, such as the relevant comment in this thread. Of course, we each have the privilege to think differently from one another, but hopefully not at another's expense. I think the golden rule is a good and reliable one, and one to defer to when we humans invariably violate it from time to time. Again, my apologies for my pseudo-moderation. There's a "report" link for each comment for such concerns for a reason. I appreciate the feedback.

 

[Lightspeed]

Is amirm going to review the K17? Anyone know?

 

[Chagall]

Is amirm going to review the K17? Anyone know?

Amir tests whatever members or companies send him - we don't know specifically about K17.

 

[MadMaxx]

I've had this K17 for a couple weeks and love it. I was looking for a good AKM dac with streaming functions and learned of the K17 from an Apos Audio email about a month ago (bought it from B&H, though). I'm not a headphone guy, so can't comment on that aspect. For computer games/music, the K17 is a beast.

 

[rarewolf]

Curious…

When you find PEQ integrated in the same unit with the DAC, what are the chances that the PEQ calculations are integrated with decoding? That is, to make the integer math a single floating point calculation…

 

[jkim]

When you find PEQ integrated in the same unit with the DAC, what are the chances that the PEQ calculations are integrated with decoding? That is, to make the integer math a single floating point calculation…

Don't understand your question. Would you elaborate?

 

[rarewolf]

Don't understand your question. Would you elaborate?

For the same reason why purists always use a full volume setting when sending untouched PCM to a DAC, PEQ at the source would violate rational for purists that insist on bitperfect data into the DAC. I can see where purists’ interests would be satisfied if PEQ calculations were integrated intimately with the DAC’s decoding.

Are there already examples of this? For example, L&P W2 dongle DAC’s implementation of its IEM profiles…(?)

 

[jkim]

For the same reason why purists always use a full volume setting when sending untouched PCM to a DAC, PEQ at the source would violate rational for purists that insist on bitperfect data into the DAC. I can see where purists’ interests would be satisfied if PEQ calculations were integrated intimately with the DAC’s decoding.

Are there already examples of this? For example, L&P W2 dongle DAC’s implementation of its IEM profiles…(?)

No, currently there's no such thing. I thought you were referring to some new technology or at least some specific idea. Any onboard PEQ implementation in all devices we know is just DSP before DA conversion in the signal chain. So, there's no reason it would perform differently than PEQ applied in a PC or a smartphone. Convenience of usage is another matter, though.

And with today's DAC technology with a 120 dB or higher dynamic range, there should be no audible sound degradation even if there were wild swings in a PEQ transfer function.

By the way, if what you refer to "L&P W2 dongle DAC" is this or the brand's other CS431xx-based DACs reviewed here, ALL of them produce peculiar audible distortion caused by Cirrus Logic's dynamic range enhancement. See my review to get a better idea of what it is. To me, it is a nonsense to pay a few hundred bucks for any of these devices.

Further, I would not buy any DAC with onboard PEQ by FiiO or Topping or any other similar brands UNLESS all its PEQ filters' correct operation along with little or no quantization noise is thoroughly tested. The only DAC brands I would be willing to pay over $100 to for their DSP functions are:

• RME
• Qudelix
• JDS Labs
• Neutron HiFi

As for these brands, I am confident that, EVEN IF there are some software/firmware issues, they will address those for their customers. I have no such confidence in FiiO, Topping, etc. I really hope they will change the situation but I'm losing hope...

 

[rarewolf]

No, currently there's no such thing. I thought you were referring to some new technology or at least some specific idea. Any onboard PEQ implementation in all devices we know is just DSP before DA conversion in the signal chain. So, there's no reason it would perform differently than PEQ applied in a PC or a smartphone. Convenience of usage is another matter, though.
…

That’s what I thought of computer/smartphone applications of EQ. Still, it seems strange than, even when the EQ engine is integrated with the DAC (and possible conversion to DSD), that it would still convert back to the original PCM format(?) Why not hand it straight off as 32bit?