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Fiio K13 R2R - Owners Thread

I have no doubt the placebo effect will be strong with the Darkside Pro. Part of me wants it just to shamelessly have an extra box with the K13 and K9 Pro ESS setup. Someone will surely say the system was not "resolving" enough if there is no audible difference to level headed listeners.
 
The Darkside Pro has arrived; fast delivery.

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2 months without Darkside pro now, nothing will ever convince me about external power supply
 
Hello Voodooless ! What does a "75 SINAD" mean ?
It is a standardized unit of measurement used for indicating quality of signal output. The best DACs on the market are significantly more performant, pushing over 120 SINAD

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It is a standardized unit of measurement used for indicating quality of signal output. The best DACs on the market are significantly more performant, pushing over 120 SINAD

View attachment 549033
Interesting; I've never / I don't recall this Measurement ever been mentioned in the various DAC Reviews on YouTube. Is this Measurement published by Manufacturers ? I was also interested in the "Gustard Audalytic DR70 R2R" DAC, what's the SINAD Measurement of this one ?
 
Interesting; I've never / I don't recall this Measurement ever been mentioned in the various DAC Reviews on YouTube. Is this Measurement published by Manufacturers ? I was also interested in the "Gustard Audalytic DR70 R2R" DAC, what's the SINAD Measurement of this one ?
Audalytic DR70 has been measured at approximately 87dB SINAD at 1KHz, which would be similar parameter measurement as used here at ASR.

Taking an accurate SINAD measurement requires expensive equipment, so many/most YouTube reviewers don't have the necessary equipment.
 
Interesting; I've never / I don't recall this Measurement ever been mentioned in the various DAC Reviews on YouTube. Is this Measurement published by Manufacturers ? I was also interested in the "Gustard Audalytic DR70 R2R" DAC, what's the SINAD Measurement of this one ?
It stands for Signal to Noise and Distortion. It is essentially the same as THD+N but inverted and expressed as dB

so 100dB sinad is the equivalent of 0.001% THD+N which would be -100dB if expressed in dB
 
It stands for Signal to Noise and Distortion. It is essentially the same as THD+N but inverted and expressed as dB

so 100dB sinad is the equivalent of 0.001% THD+N which would be -100dB if expressed in dB
Thanks for the Info. So, if a Device has a SINAD of 75, this means 0.0075% THD+N (or is it 0.75% ?) or -75db THD ?
 
Thanks for the Info. So, if a Device has a SINAD of 75, this means 0.0075% THD+N (or is it 0.75% ?) or -75db THD ?
SINAD is in dB, which is a logarithmic scale. THD+N is in linear scale. To convert SINAD to linear scale, you do 10^(SINAD/20), so the full formula for converting SINAD to THD+N is:

sinad_to_thdn.png


From that it's easy to see how you get such "round" values for multiples of 20 dB shown by @JSmith above.
 
Thanks for the Info. So, if a Device has a SINAD of 75, this means 0.0075% THD+N (or is it 0.75% ?) or -75db THD ?
Ah - no sorry. I can see how the example I showed could confuse you.

You've been given the correct info by @JSmith , and @danadam above.
 
actually a well made R2R dac isn't bad, the holo spring 2 I am using have like 10x db SINAD, plus the fancy look and placebo effect, it's fine to enjoy the nostalgic but not really if the objective performance stepping into the audible region
 
So... if anyone is thinking about improving the PSU or using a fancy external ones, I did some measurements today:

AC IN -> XLR OUT.
BACKGROUND NOISE WHILE PLAYING silence: -106db
K13 R2R.jpeg




DC IN [Super PSU] -> XLR OUT.
BACKGROUND NOISE WHILE PLAYING silence: -127/8 db (The limit of my instrument).

K13 LO SUPER POWER.jpeg



No interesting difference. It was fun cause I built a PSU that is reaching -129db with 0 noise but... besides the 150Hz peak... no real improvement when normal music is playing.


Just my 2 cents. Hope it helps someone!

PS: I love the combination of this "broken" device and my HE1000SE. It tames them a little :)
 
And... a small clarification, PRE OUT measures better than Line Out if you don't take it to max volume. In my exact unit, -75.2db "SINAD" almost till 94 (the whole range) in both cases. The super PSU just adds a measurable, but not audible, (for me) noise floor improvement.

I measured many more parameters, distortion at all freqs, etc. Nothing relevant to report. Stick with the original PSU and enjoy your device unless you have uber-sensitive IEMs that you want to pair with it.
 
And... a small clarification, PRE OUT measures better than Line Out if you don't take it to max volume. In my exact unit, -75.2db "SINAD" almost till 94 (the whole range) in both cases. The super PSU just adds a measurable, but not audible, (for me) noise floor improvement.

I measured many more parameters, distortion at all freqs, etc. Nothing relevant to report. Stick with the original PSU and enjoy your device unless you have uber-sensitive IEMs that you want to pair with it.

With regard to the two unbalanced outputs, is either pair specifically allocated as a Pre-out? If so, which one?
 
With regard to the two unbalanced outputs, is either pair specifically allocated as a Pre-out? If so, which one?
All analog outputs in the back behave the same way; when you choose Pre out, the volume IC attenuates the signal. When you choose Line out mode, volume fixes to max.
 
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