MarkS
Major Contributor
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2021
- Messages
- 1,872
- Likes
- 3,031
Of course it is. No one is hearing -77dB noise and distortion. People here like engineering excellence for the sake of engineering excellence.
-
Welcome to ASR. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
Fiio K13 R2R - Owners Thread
- Thread starter Guddu
- Start date
Reynaldo
Active Member
I didn't believe in R2R DACs, but I was traveling in Spain and found one for 280 euros, sealed in the box.
I've been using it for about two weeks and I found the sound quality to be very good, and it has a powerful headphone amplifier.
It works very well with my Sennheiser HD 650.
I've been using it for about two weeks and I found the sound quality to be very good, and it has a powerful headphone amplifier.
It works very well with my Sennheiser HD 650.
Yeah I just wanted to see what all the fuss was about. Sounds like everything else probably. I've not done blind level matched testing to confirm, but my sighted bias likes the way it sounds. I keep it next to my bedroom JDS Labs Atom 2 stack which is use as my reference.
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2021
- Messages
- 3,144
- Likes
- 6,731
Was tested by Cameron and about the nicest thing I could say about it after watching the review video is that “it’s priced accordingly with regard to the measurements”
Well we’ve probably seen close to peak measured performance for R-2R architecture in Amir’s review of Topping’s Centaurus.
Im assuming the Holo R2R measures pretty well too as they purposely stated they wanted a state of the art transparent DAC for the "May" I think it was. Plus for its price it damn well better.
Isn't Centaurus using a shared ladder from Cyan 2?
I actually don't know. Just watched something on the Holo May this weekend while up late scrolling YouTube.
أنا جربته والكيبل من مصنع موثوق ولاكن نفس المشكله انقذني
جربته انا على الجهاز وعلى منفذ متوازن على سماعات اريا اورجانيك نفس المشكله
Please post in English.
Improving ASR as a member/moderator
@RickS - whenever I see spam, I report it and I make a post to let other ASR members know that the post has been reported so that you don't get inundated with reports. Recently, the original spam post was deleted, but my follow-up post was not. It was only just deleted, I presume it was you who...
www.audiosciencereview.com
Terms and rules
You must agree to these terms and rules before using the site.
www.audiosciencereview.com
Jimster480
Major Contributor
How could it be if it can't reach 100 SINAD?
lmfao what?
Maybe not in a normal room with some cheap speakers, atleast maybe they don't THINK they are hearing it but 77db? Yea, definitely possible to hear especially if you have a higher quality reference. The idea that audio performance doesn't matter is the most wild concept I've seen on this forum, even more wild than the "trust your ears" crowd.
My 32 year old Parasound DAC has a SINAD of about 97dB and it sounds good to my ears
.. That said, I also listen on a modern DAC with 117dB SINAD as well, and like to compare them for the fun of it.It's pretty crazy how much smaller and more power efficient modern DACs are.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2024
- Messages
- 2,969
- Likes
- 5,339
The notion that being able to hear a lower SINAD has some correlation with the price of your speakers, or that 100dB is the threshold for transparency, is the only "wild concept" I'm seeing. First thing you have to determine is if the SINAD is distortion- or noise-limited. If noise, then the determination of whether that's audible is going to be how sensitive the speakers are, the noise floor of the environment, how close you are to the speaker, and what your average listening levels are (in addition to the actual noise level). If distortion, then that's almost certain to be inaudible unless it's dominated by higher-order products (rather than being primarily benign H2) and/or is particularly egregious (which at ~80dB SINAD it certainly is not).
You should take the Klippel Listening test.
Listening Test
Those results at -69dB are all faked and use an analyzer to score so well. This test result is with a multi-tone signal. You will likely score around -36dB.
BTW, music signals are way harder.
Also, bandwidth-limited speakers are really good for the types of tests where you want to hear audiophile artifacts, not high quality reference whatever that may be. Many people here have nice audio systems. Do you think every member here listens to clock radios???
I'm not sure why so many people read stuff on ASR and still think they have microphones for ears... It's absurd.
Jimster480
Major Contributor
AI is not very accurate for facts like that. The thing is that AI is not "intelligent" at all in the sense of logic. It only "knows" what it was told.
I did this one last time:You should take the Klippel Listening test.
It's quite humbling. You can compare yourself to other humans. For example:Listening Test
www.klippel.de
View attachment 537839
Those results at -69dB are all faked and use an analyzer to score so well. This test result is with a multi-tone signal. You will likely score around -36dB.
BTW, music signals are way harder.
Also, bandwidth-limited speakers are really good for the types of tests where you want to hear audiophile artifacts, not high quality reference whatever that may be. Many people here have nice audio systems. Do you think every member here listens to clock radios???
I'm not sure why so many people read stuff on ASR and still think they have microphones for ears... It's absurd.
I could hear distortion from 0.006-0.008 when I actually focused on it. My wife did even better, especially after listening to the entire video.
I will check out this other link maybe tonight, if not tomorrow.
The thing is that when you listen to music without any reference of how it SHOULD sound; it is easy for distortion to blend into the music while hitting much higher zones.
However the argument of if it can be HEARD vs whether or not you NOTICE it are two completely separate things. You can get away with quite a bit of distortion before its "noticed" hence why people like HiFi / Audiophile stuff after listening to it; because you "unlock" new clearer audio reproduction that you have never heard before. Just like how you can argue that 480i was totally fine for watching videos; anyone who is 35+ watched it for atleast a decade (in the USA)... and if you have never watched 4K high Bitrate; you might say its "completely fine" and that you "don't even notice" the lower bitrate or lower resolution and while that is "true" it doesn't mean its accurate.
Thanks for the video demonstrating what distortion sounds like. It's not actually a test of audio perception, no rigor, no controls, and sighted (even with closed eyes).
Unless you devised a way to do a blind comparison of the different distortion amounts, which there is no effective way to do so, you end up doing an uncontrolled blind test. Instead, counting 1,2,3... until your desire to hear the distortion overcomes your inability doesn't cut it as evidence, and if you could really hear -100dB artifacts as you often post here, it would be truly remarkable.
Similar threads
