Fiio K13 R2R - Owners Thread

[AndyBell]

Fio has another product the fio warmer R2R that also has tubes , in nos mode with tubes it could plausibly be audible ( not in a good way imo )
And thus different which are interpreted as better for some people .

On topic . Fio offer a lot of products they essentially game every possible kind of consumer and are not adverse to play on audiophile mythology to make a sale ? On the other hand many of thier products seems well made and the features like EQ seems to work well with a nice UI and user experience ? I don’t know what to think sometimes ?

All thier products are not snakeoil , but some are if they think it sells so they seems technically capable at making whatever product they want .

Not like for example audio GD where all products are crap because the designer has drunk the coolaid and actually believes in all audiophile nonsense like feedback is bad and discrete components are better etc etc ?

Agreed. And FiiO sell reasonably priced equipment. The K11 R2R I have was inexpensive and now resides in my living room, connecting my TV to this Bose audio player Mrs B bought some years ago. It does that job perfectly well.

I tried the same setup with my Topping DX3 Pro+. Surprise, surprise, it sounded identical…

 

[RickS]

Thread reported and see there are going on 4 pages worth of content to sort out.

Please find another thread or, if you need a break, talk a walk or listen to some music. Thanks!

 

[xlinknz]

Is anyone using or tried their K13 with a power amp. I wondered whether there is any technical difference (audible or not) in sound quality when using LO (fixed line out mode) and PRE (amp) mode.

I don't know whether using PRE (amp) mode is better or not than LO mode maybe the Fiio's pre amp is better than my vintage 1980s dedicated pre amp! (I still use the later as it has phono inputs for my turntable). I intend to try but I doubt I'll hear an audible difference?

@staticV3 I see you commented in other thread on the difference when using a DAC as a pre amp?

 

[staticV3]

@staticV3 I see you commented in other thread on the difference when using a DAC as a pre amp?

The K13 uses the NJW1195A for volume control, so should have perfect channel balance at all volumes, which likely beats your vintage pre in that regard.

It doesn't appear like the NJW1195A can be fully bypassed on the K13, so enabling Line mode likely just sets the chip to Unity gain but otherwise leaves it in the signal chain.

In general, I can't think of a reason not to use the K13's Pre mode.

If your setup allows for it, then you can definitely feed the K13 output straight into a Power Amp or Main in on your Integrated Amp in case it has this kind of bridge connector:

 

[JSmith]

Anyway, I am very pleased with the sound, I have only used OS mode so far and have finally found a DAC that does not have that edgy, in your face and rather digitised sound which I have disliked for many years - in fact since CDs became the norm!

It sounds enthusiastic and eager and, well, just more natural, analogue and musical. I also noticed the bass response and definition got even better after I left it running for a few hours - not sure if that was because it had warmed up fully or had a start at burning in?

None of this means anything apart from to you. There isn't much point sharing this kind of personal and subjective impression here regarding a DAC. Members who are here for constructive discussion can find this grating when they receive a notification for a new post.

Only some early CD's had a harshness, that was nothing to do with the format and everything to do with using masters that were for vinyl and dumping them onto CD. There's a bit more to it, so you may wish to learn the history prior to making such uninformed comments. Redbook CD is vastly superior in every way to vinyl and tape formats.

Nothing burned in... it was your own perception or the ambiance that changed, not the DAC. Less background noise, more noise... hotter. cooler, more humid, less humid. Or just one of the many human biases we're all subjected to.

R2R DACs are functionally pointless in 2026 and in NOS mode basically broken.


JSmith

 

[xlinknz]

The K13 uses the NJW1195A for volume control, so should have perfect channel balance at all volumes, which likely beats your vintage pre in that regard.

It doesn't appear like the NJW1195A can be fully bypassed on the K13, so enabling Line mode likely just sets the chip to Unity gain but otherwise leaves it in the signal chain.

In general, I can't think of a reason not to use the K13's Pre mode.

If your setup allows for it, then you can definitely feed the K13 output straight into a Power Amp or Main in on your Integrated Amp in case it has this kind of bridge connector:
View attachment 508836

Thank you for the reply

When you say "should have perfect channel balance at all volumes" does that suggest some amps especially non digital volume controls do not, if so I didn't know that!

Yes I have found Fiio K13 PRE mode very useful as it means I can control volume on my vintage pre + power amp (4 meters away from my listening position) for digital sources with the Fiio remote as the vintage pre amp does not have a remote. I may consider that for my turntable too by using something like a MiniDSP PocketADC to send the TT output back to the optical input on the K13 via the vintage pre amp's tape out

 

[Mnyb]

Yes a potentiometer won’t track perfectly between channels, it’s not always obvious.

I used amps with to much gain when using a CD player for example and the music shift towards one of the speakers at low volume , when close to the extreme end of the volume pot .

Bypassing the pre and using the DAC’s volume can be a good thing sonically better gain staging less noise .

But there’s a risk , you need to trust the DAC mfg programming skills , or make it a habit to check and adjust the volume before pressing play.
There is always a small risk that you suddenly gets 100% volume due to some bug or just after a power outage.

A compromise can be to set the pre at a volume that really is a s loud as you ever want and then use the DAC .
If something goes sideways it’s gets loud but no fireworks from the speakers

 

[mhardy6647]

Thank you for the reply

When you say "should have perfect channel balance at all volumes" does that suggest some amps especially non digital volume controls do not, if so I didn't know that!

Yes I have found Fiio K13 PRE mode very useful as it means I can control volume on my vintage pre + power amp (4 meters away from my listening position) for digital sources with the Fiio remote as the vintage pre amp does not have a remote. I may consider that for my turntable too by using something like a MiniDSP PocketADC to send the TT output back to the optical input on the K13 via the vintage pre amp's tape out

Tracking of traditional ganged (stereo) potentiometer volume controls is often not great, especially at low volume levels (high levels of attenuation). Probably goes without saying that cheap stereo pots tend to be worse than good ones.

A precision volume control (e.g., a resistive 'ladder' using fixed value resistances and a multi-position switch rather than a continuously variable pot) can solve the tracking issue, but at the literal expense of hardware and the metaphorical expense of, so to speak, "operational flexibility" (in the sense of fixed, finite levels of attenuation vs. continuous attenuation).

 

[mhardy6647]

But there’s a risk , you need to trust the DAC mfg programming skills , or make it a habit to check and adjust the volume before pressing play.
There is always a small risk that you suddenly gets 100% volume due to some bug or just after a power outage.

Yup! This is terrifying and seems to be - at least in the recent past - not nearly as uncommon as one would hope!

@Mnyb does suggest a good prophylactic approach to mitigate this.

 

[IsaacOscar]

But there’s a risk , you need to trust the DAC mfg programming skills , or make it a habit to check and adjust the volume before pressing play.
There is always a small risk that you suddenly gets 100% volume due to some bug or just after a power outage.

Probably not an issue on a big expensive model like the K13, but on the Fiio Tiny & JIEZI this can happen when you have a PEQ with a high-shelf filter....

 

[Ufasas]

75 watt FiiO Darkside Pro linear power supply released in China , do we need it? very itched about it, i didn't want 50 watt because of older architecture, but 75 watt + new architecture?

 

[IsaacOscar]

75 watt FiiO Darkside Pro linear power supply released in China , do we need it? very itched about it, i didn't want 50 watt because of older architecture, but 75 watt + new architecture?

According to Amir, a better power supply won't improve sound quality (of course more power may allow for louder sound...)

 

[antcollinet]

(of course more power may allow for louder sound...)

On a DAC? I don't think so.

 

[IsaacOscar]

On a DAC? I don't think so.

The K13 R2R claims to provide up to 2.4W×2 channels, so if you don't provide it enough power it won't be able to achieve that.... (I've actually experienced this kind of problem with a bug on my phone not giving enough power to a dongle, but it has since been fixed).

The specs for the K13 however says it only needs 30W DC.

 

[RickS]

The K13 R2R claims to provide up to 2.4W×2 channels, so if you don't provide it enough power it won't be able to achieve that.... (I've actually experienced this kind of problem with a bug on my phone not giving enough power to a dongle, but it has since been fixed).

The specs for the K13 however says it only needs 30W DC.

Does this (linear power supply upgrade) not imply that the DAC has some inferior power supply? Is not the claim from their website...

What is this "different sound experience" with the external supply? Is a better one or just more expensive?

 

[IsaacOscar]

Does this (linear power suply) not imply that the DAC has some inferior power supply? Is not the claim from their website...

View attachment 510043

What is this "different sound experience" with the external supply? Is a better or just more expensive?

It's for people that would like to double the size of their DAC:

 

[RickS]

Ah, so it is clearly an elevated experience!

 

[xlinknz]

I thought Fiio were bringing out a purpose built 12v DC external for the K13 to allow those that don't want to use AC to have a Fiio option

I'll defer to others where whether external power supplies are better, less EMR?

 

[voodooless]

Does this (linear power supply upgrade) not imply that the DAC has some inferior power supply? Is not the claim from their website...

View attachment 510043

What is this "different sound experience" with the external supply? Is a better one or just more expensive?

You really can’t make this shit up

So, people buy a linear power supply, to then feed a switch mode supply inside of the device…

 

[Guddu]

So, people buy a linear power supply, to then feed a switch mode supply inside of the device…

Shouldn’t be the case.
It should bypass the AC mains completely.