brockduffy
New Member
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2022
- Messages
- 3
- Likes
- 3
Sorry but what measurements are you reading from that prove there is no audible difference between a Prism Dream ADA 8XR and a Fireface 800?
-
Welcome to ASR. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
Fiio K13 R2R - Owners Thread
- Thread starter Guddu
- Start date
Sorry but what measurements are you reading from that prove there is no audible difference between a Prism Dream ADA 8XR and a Fireface 800?
You see the prevailing attitudes here...(sigh). I'm all for science, but sometimes we use it like a brickbat.
oleg87
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I'm more inclined to suspect the answer is in frequency response, non-linearity, or other things a basic Deltawave comparison might reveal.
Since I have no idea how it measures on the bench, not much point to speculating further.
For an audio engineer it should te trivial to do a few measurements. We like dealing with data and facts.. please bring them! Bonus would be some music recordings of both devices to use with DeltaWave.
The 'but' there might be a bit of a tell.
If you are 'all for science', are you prepared to accept that sighted and/or uncontrolled listening comparisons might not be telling you what you think they are. Because science tells us that we can't rely on them.
I remember the Denon DCD-1290, which advertised "1 Bit DAC Technology" as a differentiator. Burr Brown (what happened to that DAC copany, was top regarded at the time?) I recall. The Accuphase DP65v (also Burr Brown, I think) that replaced it was nicer looking, but that was when I started to think that maybe we had reached a plateau in sonic accuracy for digital, because the Accuphase "didn't open veils and enhance the contrast to the black background and made me feel I was sitting in the studio" anymore than the Denon, although it was nicer to look at and operate.
oleg87
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Burr-Brown has long been absorbed by TI (and still uses it as branding on some of their audio chips).
I'm happy so far with my K13 R2R, one feature I found is the benefit of 2 x RCA outputs allowed me to briefly compare my 'HiFi grade' QED Graphite RCA Interconnect (NZ$69) vs inexpensive red/black RCAs which I estimate cost NZ$5 as I could change input mid song but...I could not tell the difference, clearly I need to get a better 'Audiophile' grade interconnect such as the QED Signature RCA interconnect at NZ$669 or 10 fold the cost! (more than the cost of the DAC)
Back to K13 R2R what is somewhat annoying is the Fiio mobile app cannot be used as a remote i.e. I cannot use the mobile app to adjust volume or switch between PO, PRE and LO, why would they not have that in the mobile app?
I've yet to try connecting it to directly my Power Amp and for fun use the Fiio web EQ app to make my HD560s sound like a Fiio JT7 or FT1 (options I considered before the HD560s)
Back to K13 R2R what is somewhat annoying is the Fiio mobile app cannot be used as a remote i.e. I cannot use the mobile app to adjust volume or switch between PO, PRE and LO, why would they not have that in the mobile app?
I've yet to try connecting it to directly my Power Amp and for fun use the Fiio web EQ app to make my HD560s sound like a Fiio JT7 or FT1 (options I considered before the HD560s)
Last edited:
Just got my K13 R2R today and have been testing out with my cans - Edition XS, FT5 and FT1 - they all sound better than before and easily set separate EQ for each of them to the Harman over ear 2018 profile just as a starting point. I used the online web based page as I could not get the standalone app to recognise the unit?
I will have to tweak the EQ for my rather old ears no doubt but in fact all my headphones sounded pretty good with no EQ from the Fiio at all.
Anyway, I am very pleased with the sound, I have only used OS mode so far and have finally found a DAC that does not have that edgy, in your face and rather digitised sound which I have disliked for many years - in fact since CDs became the norm!
It sounds enthusiastic and eager and, well, just more natural, analogue and musical. I also noticed the bass response and definition got even better after I left it running for a few hours - not sure if that was because it had warmed up fully or had a start at burning in?
Main cons so far are not being able to name any of the user EQ slots - unless I have missed something - and I also could not get any output from the SE 3.5mm port?
No doubt I will get ridiculed for saying the DAC sounds different, musical, analogue or is burning in but I can only believe my ears and not the measured results which are mostly beyond our range of perception so why chase even better ones all the time - oh, maybe it is to persuade you to buy one with even better specification, but if they all sound the same that seems to disprove the argument?
I was going to buy a K17 but decided to try the K13 which is not too much money if you don't like it. All I can say is, if you have not listened to a K13 R2R or presumably most other R2R versions then try one out if you can.
I will have to tweak the EQ for my rather old ears no doubt but in fact all my headphones sounded pretty good with no EQ from the Fiio at all.
Anyway, I am very pleased with the sound, I have only used OS mode so far and have finally found a DAC that does not have that edgy, in your face and rather digitised sound which I have disliked for many years - in fact since CDs became the norm!
It sounds enthusiastic and eager and, well, just more natural, analogue and musical. I also noticed the bass response and definition got even better after I left it running for a few hours - not sure if that was because it had warmed up fully or had a start at burning in?
Main cons so far are not being able to name any of the user EQ slots - unless I have missed something - and I also could not get any output from the SE 3.5mm port?
No doubt I will get ridiculed for saying the DAC sounds different, musical, analogue or is burning in but I can only believe my ears and not the measured results which are mostly beyond our range of perception so why chase even better ones all the time - oh, maybe it is to persuade you to buy one with even better specification, but if they all sound the same that seems to disprove the argument?
I was going to buy a K17 but decided to try the K13 which is not too much money if you don't like it. All I can say is, if you have not listened to a K13 R2R or presumably most other R2R versions then try one out if you can.
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2019
- Messages
- 16,529
- Likes
- 37,579
comment's superfluous
There, I thought it was pertinent to my experience and the title of the thread?
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2019
- Messages
- 16,529
- Likes
- 37,579
I meant that any comment I would make in response to your previous post would be superfluous.
Your post says it all.
JSmith
Master Contributor
Echoic memory typically lasts for about 3 to 4 seconds... very different to pitch or note type memory.
One can't “remember the sound” of a DAC hours or days later... noting any differences will be generally minor or inaudible.
Once a difference is identified... is there a clear preference?
If echoic memory lasted long enough to store DAC "signatures", blind testing wouldn’t be so hard for people who claim to hear big differences.
JSmith
I don't think anyone can dispute that because nobody knows what that actually means.
No issue with my headphones (HD560S) on my K13's SE 3.5mm input. Do none of your cans work on the 3.5mm SE port if so I'd try a factory reset and if still an issue consider a warranty claim
MAB
Major Contributor
I have an Adcom R2R DAC. Likely peak R2R performance. Perhaps someday I will test how transparent it measures.
It sounds just like the rest of my DACs when played at the same volume and with no EQ.
AndyBell
Member
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2025
- Messages
- 86
- Likes
- 139
DACs that have EQ (assuming you use the EQ) of course sound different, better even, because EQ significantly alters the sound.
I far prefer such DACs because I can stream direct from a source that lacks EQ, such as Qobuz, and get the sound I want. That's why I got a WiiM Pro and connected it to my active speakers via toslink - saves fussing around with a PC and an audio player that can access Qobuz...
But I suspect these devices will fan the flames of the 'DACs sound different' debate because listeners won't differentiate between the DAC and the EQ - to them it's all part of the package...
I far prefer such DACs because I can stream direct from a source that lacks EQ, such as Qobuz, and get the sound I want. That's why I got a WiiM Pro and connected it to my active speakers via toslink - saves fussing around with a PC and an audio player that can access Qobuz...
But I suspect these devices will fan the flames of the 'DACs sound different' debate because listeners won't differentiate between the DAC and the EQ - to them it's all part of the package...
AndyBell
Member
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2025
- Messages
- 86
- Likes
- 139
When someone has cognitive dissonance (I use the term informally, as discussed by Scott Adams in his books and online) then often no amount of evidence will make any difference.
And audio is such a fertile ground for cognitive dissonance, because it’s not simple to prove anything, and our impressions can be very compelling.
Blind ABX tests take much effort do properly - when I first did one (comparing a cheap usb DAC/amp to a higher end desktop one) it was a huge shock that I could hear no differences at all, other than the desktop DAC could go much louder.
What made it easier for me was that the ABX test was the first thing I did with the high end device. I had no prior impression to defend. I kept it for my office as it sounded good, as did the dongle.
An AI suggested I try an R2R DAC if I wanted to hear a difference. So I tried the FiiO K11 R2R (which DAC-wise is about the same as the K13). I did the ABX test first. Again, no difference between any DAC.
That’s what led me here…
I often wonder what my opinion would be if I hadn’t done the tests first.
And audio is such a fertile ground for cognitive dissonance, because it’s not simple to prove anything, and our impressions can be very compelling.
Blind ABX tests take much effort do properly - when I first did one (comparing a cheap usb DAC/amp to a higher end desktop one) it was a huge shock that I could hear no differences at all, other than the desktop DAC could go much louder.
What made it easier for me was that the ABX test was the first thing I did with the high end device. I had no prior impression to defend. I kept it for my office as it sounded good, as did the dongle.
An AI suggested I try an R2R DAC if I wanted to hear a difference. So I tried the FiiO K11 R2R (which DAC-wise is about the same as the K13). I did the ABX test first. Again, no difference between any DAC.
That’s what led me here…
I often wonder what my opinion would be if I hadn’t done the tests first.
Fio has another product the fio warmer R2R that also has tubes , in nos mode with tubes it could plausibly be audible ( not in a good way imo )
And thus different which are interpreted as better for some people .
On topic . Fio offer a lot of products they essentially game every possible kind of consumer and are not adverse to play on audiophile mythology to make a sale ? On the other hand many of thier products seems well made and the features like EQ seems to work well with a nice UI and user experience ? I don’t know what to think sometimes ?
All thier products are not snakeoil , but some are if they think it sells
so they seems technically capable at making whatever product they want .Not like for example audio GD where all products are crap because the designer has drunk the coolaid and actually believes in all audiophile nonsense like feedback is bad and discrete components are better etc etc ?
