Fiio K13 R2R - Owners Thread

[Sokel]

I can simply disable DSD on my BR player and listen to the PCM layer on the SACD via the K13 so no need to convert

You won't know DSD vs PCM performance unless you measure it, my curiosity until now has led me believing it's different per device., per level, etc.
Others may be better, others may suffer.

Here's an example where a broken PCM design benefits from DSD:

PCM vs DSD

Did a little comparison and I was wondering if any friend with better gear here has tested this. Results you're about to see is probably narrowed to the specific DAC but it's interesting to see how it handles things differently. I will not try to decipher the results other that DSD seems much...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Mnyb]

The PCM layer is not always the same master or may have a different level.

Or the K13 migth output different levels and different fr response ? I would like to see measurements with both DSD and PCM with NOS mode or OS mode etc .

NOS mode should probably be left alone if you not have HQ player or similar solutions.

 

[Svend P]

likewise the benefit of class A amplification

There is also no benefit to class A amplification. That is just another myth

 

[oleg87]

does anyone have any measurements of the r2r dacs from fiio?

Fiio K11 R2R DAC/HPAMP measurements

This is a simple measurement of Fiio K11 R2R DAC and headphone amplifie. Some setup, 200kohm input impedance, 48khz sample rate, 20khz bandwidth. Balance ouput Dynamic range, No weighting 50mV SNR, 32ohm load, No weighting Linearity, 1khz sine, elliptic filter low and high pass from...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[xlinknz]

There is also no benefit to class A amplification. That is just another myth

so you say

Fiio K11 R2R DAC/HPAMP measurements

This is a simple measurement of Fiio K11 R2R DAC and headphone amplifie. Some setup, 200kohm input impedance, 48khz sample rate, 20khz bandwidth. Balance ouput Dynamic range, No weighting 50mV SNR, 32ohm load, No weighting Linearity, 1khz sine, elliptic filter low and high pass from...

www.audiosciencereview.com

note my understanding of the implementation in the K13 is different therefore presumably different measurements

 

[Mnyb]

There are many roads to Rome , it’s the results that counts. You can build a transparent device in many ways .

The K13 is probably not one of them , it might have a ”sound” .

The strange audiophile beliefs that everything matters and nothing is truly transparent ( demonstrably false btw ) lead to paradoxical products that migth actually have a sound

There are folkloric myths about discrete being better than IC tubes being better than transistors etc . Different amp classes having a hierarchy ?

For a headphone amp class A’s disadvantages are not really a big problem as we are talking milliwatt output so the heat can be easily dissipated . So why not .

For driving speakers it’s almost never done nowadays .

Small signal tube stuff might be Class A of practical and historical reasons ?

 

[RexrothPigeon]

Different amp classes having a hierarchy ?

gonna be honest and say that the naming scheme, assigning "classes" A/AB/D, plays a big role in this. Before I started learning stuff I naturally assumed these "classes" were tiers, and I don't think that was a rare assumption.

 

[antcollinet]

gonna be honest and say that the naming scheme, assigning "classes" A/AB/D, plays a big role in this. Before I started learning stuff I naturally assumed these "classes" were tiers, and I don't think that was a rare assumption.

Something I'd not thought of, perhaps due to my engineering background - but almost inevitable given the nature of the hifi industry for the last 50 years.

It should have stated at Z and worked backwards.

 

[solderdude]

Class C sounds really nice ... and then there is class E, F, G, H and even T (Tripath) and of course class AA (Technics) and New Class A (as well as computer drive new class A) and whatever other manufacturer could come up with.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

Now that I think of it, the misunderstanding could be exacerbated by the standard US 4 point system, in which school grades top out at A and when you get to F you've failed (for some reason there is no "E"). For Americans, at least, it's reflexive to assume that Class A is three levels better than Class D.

 

[Mart68]

For driving speakers it’s almost never done nowadays .

Oh it is, it just depends what audio circles you hang out in. I still use a Krell. It works fine, no motivation to change especially since it's so big and heavy and the heat sinks are so razor sharp that swapping it out risks physical injury

The numerous versions of the Sugden A21 are still popular, at least in the UK.

 

[Soria Moria]

I'd only settle for a class A+ amplifier. Being an audiophile is all about having high standards after all.

 

[Ropeburn]

I'd only settle for a class A+ amplifier. Being an audiophile is all about having high standards after all.

Most popular amplifier classes per country

 

[Mnyb]

Oh it is, it just depends what audio circles you hang out in. I still use a Krell. It works fine, no motivation to change especially since it's so big and heavy and the heat sinks are so razor sharp that swapping it out risks physical injury

The numerous versions of the Sugden A21 are still popular, at least in the UK.

 

[Mnyb]

Oh it is, it just depends what audio circles you hang out in. I still use a Krell. It works fine, no motivation to change especially since it's so big and heavy and the heat sinks are so razor sharp that swapping it out risks physical injury

The numerous versions of the Sugden A21 are still popular, at least in the UK.

Sugden A21 ? imo it was always crap very little power but they sold here too in the 80’s

 

[Mart68]

Sugden A21 ? imo it was always crap very little power but they sold here too in the 80’s

Yes. Their continuing appeal eludes me. No power, far from SOA in noise and distortion, don't like tough loads, very expensive.

 

[pichu]

Happy new year everyone!

Do we have measurements of this DAC yet? I only see K11 measurements being posted and I read the entire thread.

I’m curious what the linearity graph looks like for this

 

[solderdude]

Happy new year everyone!

Do we have measurements of this DAC yet? I only see K11 measurements being posted and I read the entire thread.

I’m curious what the linearity graph looks like for this

K11 R2R, K13 R2R and Warmer use the same DAC module and have comparable results.

 

[pichu]

K11 R2R, K13 R2R and Warmer use the same DAC module and have comparable results.

You’ll have to help me out but based on the measurements am I understanding it right that the resolution of these DACs is only around 12-13 bits?

Is the distortion audible? This seems concerning but I don’t understand much, still trying to learn.

 

[solderdude]

In most music the distortion is not of audible concern but in some music it might.
The distortion products (when used without digital attenuation) are at a rather 'safe' distance of -70dB.

However, when digital attenuation is used the signal/distortion ratio might become worse (have not seen that measured).