Fiio K13 R2R - Owners Thread

[Guddu]

Doesn't the coaxial only output a digital signal, when you select LO?

K13 R2R has coax input only, no coax or any other digital out.

LO is is Line Out mode without pre-amp function for RCA/XLR output, volume control disabled.

 

[antcollinet]

I obviously can not deny the differences that measurements might show but personally can not tell when K13 R2R is playing in OS or NOS mode on listening.

This is not a surprise. Except in extreme cases, the measurements can only say it "might be audible to some people, some of the time" rather than "Audible to everyone always"

Most people can't hear distortion with music below about -45dB - around 0.5%. (based on Klippel Listening test results). Most Dacs (even really bad ones) produce distortion lower than that.

 

[Mnyb]

Afiak we are sensitive to stuff in the following order .

1.Frequency response issues *
2.Noise
3.Distorsion

* some unorthodox filters or lack of them may challenge you listeners with good HF hearing , they do roll off the extreme treble , this might be the only explanation to why someone prefer them ,? but you cant say tone control to a card carrying audiophile ? he might use all kind of "not tone controls" to control the tone of the sound ?

 

[Jimster480]

You can even have 3x RCA out if you want by using only half of the XLR out (converter)

1:The double RCA out is for usage with an external (even more powerful) headphone amp or RCA in power amp and/or a sub combined with a power amp (which could simultaneously be connected when that is connected using XLR)

2: Yes, as it can reach 6.7V = 124dB peak SPL on SE out.

SINAD is around 78 so good enough for home audio usage.
The distortion profile is not very favorable because it has a lot of higher harmonics which could be potentially become (barely) audible with some recordings.

What has 78 SINAD? The K11 / K13?

 

[Jimster480]

For now with k5, and can test with fiio k7 later, dunno what you looking for, i am probably not the best at explaining it all in audiophile terms. Tried sundara, technica r50x, and sony ma900, and they say ma900 doesn't scale that well with more powerful dacs, this is the most powerful i ever had i think, and all 3 headphones sounding satisfying, maybe soon i will start thinking of selling fiio k5 & k7 away

I look for actual audio quality differences by listening to complex or problem tracks and then A/B switching. I have a switcher and I have an amp that switches input on a button.

 

[Guddu]

What has 78 SINAD? The K11 / K13?

K13 R2R provided specs says 0.0173% THD+N which should be around -75dB SINAD

 

[dxmurky66]

K13 R2R has coax input only, no coax or any other digital out.

LO is is Line Out mode without pre-amp function for RCA/XLR output, volume control disabled.

I was talking about the K11. That and the K11 R2R have coaxial in/out. Unit can be switched from headphone (PO) to rear LO .

 

[Guddu]

I was talking about the K11. That and the K11 R2R have coaxial in/out. Unit can be switched from headphone (PO) to rear LO

I see, so K11 R2R can use Coax out in USB mode.

 

[oleg87]

OS vs NOS - Is it really audible?

*****No textbook theory on this one please*****

Dear FMs,
I am really interested to explore this and looking for your experiences or controlled/un-controlled tests that you could suggest in this respect.
I know what the theory says about OS & NOS but can you even identify which one is which when same content played in OS vs NOS mode on K12 R2R (or any other DAC for that matter)?

I obviously can not deny the differences that measurements might show but personally can not tell when K13 R2R is playing in OS or NOS mode on listening.
I own Wiim Ultra and E50 but these doesn't have NOS mode to try comparing.

Audibility would depend greatly on your age and how high your hearing extends.
I don't have a DAC that does "true" NOS sample-and-hold but I have sigma-delta DACs that approximate it, and I can hear it with material that has stuff going on in the treble. But I'm old enough that it's subtle.

 

[Ufasas]

OS vs NOS - Is it really audible?

*****No textbook theory on this one please*****

Dear FMs,
I am really interested to explore this and looking for your experiences or controlled/un-controlled tests that you could suggest in this respect.
I know what the theory says about OS & NOS but can you even identify which one is which when same content played in OS vs NOS mode on K12 R2R (or any other DAC for that matter)?

I obviously can not deny the differences that measurements might show but personally can not tell when K13 R2R is playing in OS or NOS mode on listening.
I own Wiim Ultra and E50 but these doesn't have NOS mode to try comparing.

View attachment 496119

i don't see difference with OS or NOS, maybe i dunno what i am looking for, but i left it at OS every time, with every headphone, and it sounded satisfying

 

[Ufasas]

I look for actual audio quality differences by listening to complex or problem tracks and then A/B switching. I have a switcher and I have an amp that switches input on a button.

would it be worth to get a switcher like this ?

 

[Jimster480]

would it be worth to get a switcher like this ?

Depends on how committed you are to A/B testing. For me it is a really big part of my audio journey / hobby.
I always A/B test anything that I buy and I have a playlist with a ton of songs that have very specific offensive tones or very faint audible background tones / micro details.
There are also distortion tests that can be done.

 

[antcollinet]

would it be worth to get a switcher like this ?

And for a difference of opinion, Only if you are planning to set up blind AB (or preferably ABX) tests. With sighted comparisons, it is simply not possible to tell if what you are hearing is really there in the music reaching your ears, or created in the wetware between them (applies to all humans).

 

[dxmurky66]

And for a difference of opinion, ...

If you are enjoying what you hear, but the differences are so minute that you can't tell unless you buy more equipment to measure them, then is it really worth it?

Appreciate this is an audio "science" site, so looks for engineering excellence too .

 

[antcollinet]

If you are enjoying what you hear, but the differences are so minute that you can't tell unless you buy more equipment to measure them, then is it really worth it?

Appreciate this is an audio "science" site, so looks for engineering excellence too .

That too. Fully agree.

Night and Day differences don't exist when it comes to modern audio electronics - in fact if someone thinks they are hearing "night and day" from changing streamer/digital source/dac/amp then it is almost certainly a result of perceptive bias.

 

[Ufasas]

And for a difference of opinion, Only if you are planning to set up blind AB (or preferably ABX) tests. With sighted comparisons, it is simply not possible to tell if what you are hearing is really there in the music reaching your ears, or created in the wetware between them (applies to all humans).

then i believe i will stay at "enjoying what you hear" and it's enough, hehe

 

[Jimster480]

If you are enjoying what you hear, but the differences are so minute that you can't tell unless you buy more equipment to measure them, then is it really worth it?

Appreciate this is an audio "science" site, so looks for engineering excellence too .

Your mind doesn't work this way, you only have around 7 seconds of true audio memory. So you need something to switch inputs if you want to do any kind of real testing to see if there are actual differences.

 

[antcollinet]

Your mind doesn't work this way, you only have around 7 seconds of true audio memory. So you need something to switch inputs if you want to do any kind of real testing to see if there are actual differences.

I think the point was that if the differences are so small you can only detect them with fast switching then why worry about them at all. They can't have any impact on listening enjoyment.

 

[Jimster480]

I think the point was that if the differences are so small you can only detect them with fast switching then why worry about them at all. They can't have any impact on listening enjoyment.

Sometimes they can, because of how sound works with your mind

 

[xlinknz]

In the youtube review by Tharbamber he says that if playing a DSD file no EQ can be used and that sound will only occur if EQ is turned off can anyone confirm this?

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