FiiO has released the USBDAC JA11, with an initial price of only $9 (69RMB) and support for PEQ DSD128 PCM384

[o0o]

You are mistaking two different things. The test files you attached to the other post differ in absolute polarity and I do NOT hear any difference between the two. And the online test clips at Audiocheck have stereo tracks one of which is inverted for testing relative polarity inversion.

Oh, that's a wrong link pasted in a rush, my bad. Here's the one I actually wanted to share. And yes it is about absolute polarity, not the relative one.

And the reason why the 'rumble' clip is often used for 'crackling' tests has nothing to do with the effect of polarity inversion. The reason why the JA11 firmware produces 'crackling' is because of DRE, NOT because of its absolutely inverted polarity.

Undoubtedly, there is zero correlation between crackling distortion and inverted polarity. I can't even imagine how one can affect the other.

As a DIY speaker builder a long time ago, I did quite extensive tests by inverting both speakers' polarity (exactly the same difference as in the two test files you attach). There is NO audible difference b/w normal and inverted connections when both channels are treated the same way.

Once again, I'm talking about the low frequency perception by the human ear of the inverted VS normal absolute polarity when using IEMs and headphones, not speakers.

I'm a bit surprised that you did not hear the difference between the 2 tracks I attached earlier. Please, give it another try. To prove my point I did ABX test using JM20 Max and Truthear Gate IEM, here's the log:

Spoiler: ABX Comparator Log

foo_abx 2.2.1 report
foobar2000 v2.25 preview 2025-07-10
2025-07-24 12:15:23

File A: 1.mp3
SHA1: 931e98aa3d43a6baebd964b6e2b419c06826caa1
File B: 2.mp3
SHA1: c95be05fd8ce9cfa3dcd1675eab79a1f8d1ba9f3

Output:
Default : Headphones (CS43131+SGM8262 HIFI Audio) [exclusive], 32-bit
Crossfading: NO

12:15:23 : Test started.
12:15:33 : Test restarted.
12:15:33 : 01/01
12:15:38 : Test restarted.
12:15:38 : 02/02
12:15:43 : Test restarted.
12:15:43 : 03/03
12:15:50 : Test restarted.
12:15:50 : 04/04
12:15:55 : Test restarted.
12:15:55 : 05/05
12:16:01 : Test restarted.
12:16:01 : 06/06
12:16:08 : Test restarted.
12:16:08 : 07/07
12:16:12 : Test restarted.
12:16:12 : 08/08
12:16:17 : Test restarted.
12:16:17 : 09/09
12:16:22 : Test restarted.
12:16:22 : 10/10
12:16:26 : Test restarted.
12:16:26 : 11/11
12:16:31 : Test restarted.
12:16:31 : 12/12
12:16:36 : Test restarted.
12:16:36 : 13/13
12:16:41 : Test restarted.
12:16:41 : 14/14
12:16:46 : Test restarted.
12:16:46 : 15/15
12:16:51 : Test restarted.
12:16:51 : 16/16
12:16:56 : Test restarted.
12:16:56 : 17/17
12:17:01 : Test restarted.
12:17:01 : 18/18
12:17:07 : Test restarted.
12:17:07 : 19/19
12:17:12 : Test restarted.
12:17:12 : 20/20
12:17:17 : Test restarted.
12:17:17 : 21/21
12:17:21 : Test restarted.
12:17:21 : 22/22
12:17:26 : Test restarted.
12:17:26 : 23/23
12:17:32 : Test restarted.
12:17:32 : 24/24
12:17:36 : Test restarted.
12:17:36 : 25/25
12:17:41 : Test restarted.
12:17:41 : 26/26
12:17:46 : Test restarted.
12:17:46 : 27/27
12:17:51 : Test restarted.
12:17:51 : 28/28
12:17:56 : Test restarted.
12:17:56 : 29/29
12:18:01 : Test restarted.
12:18:01 : 30/30
12:18:01 : Test finished.

 ----------
Total: 30/30
p-value: 0 (0%)

 -- signature --
fba1499a88d0b63b343ba4b6edb44bf84a528d0f

 

[jkim]

Oh, that's a wrong link pasted in a rush, my bad. Here's the one I actually wanted to share. And yes it is about absolute polarity, not the relative one.

Undoubtedly, there is zero correlation between crackling distortion and inverted polarity. I can't even imagine how one can affect the other.

Once again, I'm talking about the low frequency perception by the human ear of the inverted VS normal absolute polarity when using IEMs and headphones, not speakers.

I'm a bit surprised that you did not hear the difference between the 2 tracks I attached earlier. Please, give it another try. To prove my point I did ABX test using JM20 Max and Truthear Gate IEM, here's the log:

It is not about speakers vs. headphones. In an ideal setup, human auditory perception cannot distinguish between normal and absolutely inverted polarity. If you can hear differences between those pairs of files, there is an explanation: Transducers in your sample of headphones or IEMs suffer from structural/suspension asymmetry beyond an acceptable extent. In this case, we may hear differences in 'distortion cues' present when audio requires large diaphragm movements. This should be just a difference, not superiority of one over the other. You can actually prove this by recording your headphone response and analyzing its spectrogram to show different distortion patterns over time.

Lastly, we are people with reasoning. We really don't want to further discuss this matter just based on a comment like "I can still hear the difference" without sensible explanations. Of course, one can simply present data without an explanation in order to ask a question. But I believe this discussion has passed that point...

 

[danadam]

It is not about speakers vs. headphones. In an ideal setup, human auditory perception cannot distinguish between normal and absolutely inverted polarity.

For some types of signals (low-ish frequency, sawtooth-like shape) it can:

MUSINGS and LISTENING: On Absolute Polarity / Phase... (And on the joy of the modern audiophile.)

A blog for audiophiles about more objective topics. Measurements of audio gear. Reasonable, realistic, no snakeoil assessment of sound, and equipment.

archimago.blogspot.com

(there's also a bit about how it happens)

 

[o0o]

It is not about speakers vs. headphones. In an ideal setup, human auditory perception cannot distinguish between normal and absolutely inverted polarity. If you can hear differences between those pairs of files, there is an explanation: Transducers in your sample of headphones or IEMs suffer from structural/suspension asymmetry beyond an acceptable extent. In this case, we may hear differences in 'distortion cues' present when audio requires large diaphragm movements. This should be just a difference, not superiority of one over the other. You can actually prove this by recording your headphone response and analyzing its spectrogram to show different distortion patterns over time.

Lastly, we are people with reasoning. We really don't want to further discuss this matter just based on a comment like "I can still hear the difference" without sensible explanations. Of course, one can simply present data without an explanation in order to ask a question. But I believe this discussion has passed that point...

Or maybe it is related to the proximity of the sound source to the eardrum.. In case of IEMs it's a sealed isolated system which may allow eardrum to differentiate between the air being pushed or pulled. And since the lower frequency has stronger impact on air displacement, eardrum can pick these differences. Also bass reflex holes can make this effect more prominent. This just my observation and an attempt to explain it, completely open to debate. By no means I want to argue or question any established scientific theory.

What is also obvious is that in real life we use non-ideal setups, and non-ideal headphones and IEMs, that are clearly prone to the effects of the inverted polarity and we - the end-users - are allowed to know and be aware of this. And that's the whole point of my initial comment on this subject.

I would probably not write about it if I wouldn't spot the change in sound after flashing JA11 FW on JM12. To me it clearly lacked in bass, so I started digging.

A few years ago, I also had to return Hexa IEM because its dynamic bass driver sounded "weird and unnatural" to me in normal operation. It turned out to be polarity inverted by design, probably to make it blend better with BA drivers. Because with the polarity corrected bass sounded overly dominating, uncontrolled, and detached, like overpowered subwoofer. Well, Hexa's BA drivers also lacked in resolution a bit, to be frank, but it was a very comfortable set.

 

[CedarX]

Or maybe it is related to the proximity of the sound source to the eardrum.. In case of IEMs it's a sealed isolated system which may allow eardrum to differentiate between the air being pushed or pulled. And since the lower frequency has stronger impact on air displacement, eardrum can pick these differences. Also bass reflex holes can make this effect more prominent. This just my observation and an attempt to explain it, completely open to debate. By no means I want to argue or question any established scientific theory.

What is also obvious is that in real life we use non-ideal setups, and non-ideal headphones and IEMs, that are clearly prone to the effects of the inverted polarity and we - the end-users - are allowed to know and be aware of this. And that's the whole point of my initial comment on this subject.

I would probably not write about it if I wouldn't spot the change in sound after flashing JA11 FW on JM12. To me it clearly lacked in bass, so I started digging.

A few years ago, I also had to return Hexa IEM because its dynamic bass driver sounded "weird and unnatural" to me in normal operation. It turned out to be polarity inverted by design, probably to make it blend better with BA drivers. Because with the polarity corrected bass sounded overly dominating, uncontrolled, and detached, like overpowered subwoofer. Well, Hexa's BA drivers also lacked in resolution a bit, to be frank, but it was a very comfortable set.

Whether inverted polarity is audible with real asymmetrical waveforms (e.g. produced by trumpets, trombones, etc.) is, I think, still debated.
I agree with you, inverted polarity is worth noting, but there are better threads to discuss it.

 

[jkim]

For some types of signals (low-ish frequency, sawtooth-like shape) it can:

MUSINGS and LISTENING: On Absolute Polarity / Phase... (And on the joy of the modern audiophile.)

A blog for audiophiles about more objective topics. Measurements of audio gear. Reasonable, realistic, no snakeoil assessment of sound, and equipment.

archimago.blogspot.com

(there's also a bit about how it happens)

Thanks for this. Archimago's Musings site is a treasury of valuable information!

Or maybe it is related to the proximity of the sound source to the eardrum.. In case of IEMs it's a sealed isolated system which may allow eardrum to differentiate between the air being pushed or pulled. And since the lower frequency has stronger impact on air displacement, eardrum can pick these differences. Also bass reflex holes can make this effect more prominent. This just my observation and an attempt to explain it, completely open to debate. By no means I want to argue or question any established scientific theory.

What is also obvious is that in real life we use non-ideal setups, and non-ideal headphones and IEMs, that are clearly prone to the effects of the inverted polarity and we - the end-users - are allowed to know and be aware of this. And that's the whole point of my initial comment on this subject.

I would probably not write about it if I wouldn't spot the change in sound after flashing JA11 FW on JM12. To me it clearly lacked in bass, so I started digging.

A few years ago, I also had to return Hexa IEM because its dynamic bass driver sounded "weird and unnatural" to me in normal operation. It turned out to be polarity inverted by design, probably to make it blend better with BA drivers. Because with the polarity corrected bass sounded overly dominating, uncontrolled, and detached, like overpowered subwoofer. Well, Hexa's BA drivers also lacked in resolution a bit, to be frank, but it was a very comfortable set.

I admit that I made an overly strong assertation based on my own experience and reasoning. It is indeed a tricky issue that has been long debated. I think what we want to see from the past discussion about its audibility in real audio content is well summarized in the article:

1) acoustic polarity is audible with steady state (monotone) signals.

2) polarity with simple musical passages was 'extremely difficult' to ascertain in a 'highly idealized simplified laboratory environment'.

3) on complex musical passages in a normal living room no subject was able to reliably determine phase differences.

Also, when we do these experiments, we want to make sure of this:

To be clear, remember that what I said last week could still be true about asymmetrical distortions from transducers. Do not assume that just hearing a difference automatically means that one's speakers, amps, or DAC is "good" - double check that you're not hearing a system defect first!

And I agree to this statement:

Maybe this is a good example of one of those times where we as audiophiles might say "everything matters" (including the physiology of hearing absolute polarity/phase with isolated test samples), but compared to a multitude of other factors that make sound/music "good", it's probably reasonable to think of this as being much lower on the list of priorities.

Anyway, enough has been discussed by a lot of people already. Let's move on.

 

[o0o]

Whether inverted polarity is audible with real asymmetrical waveforms (e.g. produced by trumpets, trombones, etc.) is, I think, still debated.

I couldn't just walk past this challenge, so I tried to ABX the trombone sample track from GillesP last week plus a 26-second segment from Trombone Shorty's "Laveau Dirge No. 1" offered by Archimago, the results are attached.

I admit that I made an overly strong assertation based on my own experience and reasoning. It is indeed a tricky issue that has been long debated. I think what we want to see from the past discussion about its audibility in real audio content...

As with my test samples from very real audio content it's very easy to spot anomalies in the low register and they are negatively affecting a listening experience quite a bit. When we talk about mid-range - it doesn't matter as much, imho, because it does not drastically change the listening experience. Honestly, it's really negligible even if noticeable during careful ABX-testing. High frequencies are probably impossible to ABX at all, unless there is a technical issue with the IEM or other component, as you've already mentioned.

For some types of signals (low-ish frequency, sawtooth-like shape) it can:

MUSINGS and LISTENING: On Absolute Polarity / Phase... (And on the joy of the modern audiophile.)

A blog for audiophiles about more objective topics. Measurements of audio gear. Reasonable, realistic, no snakeoil assessment of sound, and equipment.

archimago.blogspot.com

(there's also a bit about how it happens)

Thank you very much for linking the Archimago's article. Lot's of interesting info there that supports and aligns with my observations and conclusions.

 

[markanini]

For some types of signals (low-ish frequency, sawtooth-like shape) it can

Does it essentially confirm general audibility of absolute phase inversion? Surely more is needed to satisfy the claim. Specialized signals can be used an abused to support all kinds of audio claims using skewed logic. The findings of a single source certainly is not enough, but needs to be verified independently, with a controled protocol. Transducers are not ideal devices, the eagerness to attribute audibility to human biology first is a red flag, suggesting missattribution. A discussion needs to take place about why audio engineers are not concerned with the issue, unlike relative phase, and why they should start caring. How do they determine which should be the correct orientation? What about all the other orientations between 0-180 degrees?

Maybe some people are happy to draw conclusions ahead of addressing these concerns. But should they?

BTW, I move to split off this discussion to its own thread, If I may be the one to suggest.

 

[CedarX]

BTW, I move to split off this discussion to its own thread, If I may be the one to suggest.

This thread?

D

'Absolute Polarity - Myth or "Important"?'

Dec 27, 2021

Hello this one was kinda eye opening for me once i got it (because 95-99% of people say its NOT in any way important)
and i just would like to share my test method with you to look for correct absolute polarity (so the polarity of all speakers at once, not just one speaker reversed)

and apparantly early versions of the topping d10 have polarity inversed!!

the effects on instruments are in general a "more natural" sound with the correct absolute phase tho at the same time its really hard to notice the difference

So, there is this website...

• Deleted member 23982
• Replies: 317
• Forum: General Audio Discussions

• 

 

[pers]

@CedarX
When applying EQ using KTMicro.
For Preamp: -1.7 dB and Preamp: -2.2 dB, is it sufficient to set the DAC volume gain to -3.0 dB?
Because the available gain is only multiples of -1.5/1.5.
I use JM12 and a generic KT02H20 USB dongle with TinHifi firmware for use in the car and at the office with different IEMs.
Thank you in advance.

 

[pers]

I thought the ticking sound issue was caused by the FiiO firmware because that's what the reports said.
It turns out that in my case, the issue only occurs on Linux OS (Fedora/Debian with PipeWire/PulseAudio).
I don't experience it on Windows 10 and Android.
Tested with local music using DeadBeef Music Player and Foobar2000.
Also streaming https://music.youtube.com

I have tried fixing it using several methods found here:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/PipeWire#Troubleshooting
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/PulseAudio/Troubleshooting
As well as other methods I found online.
I also tried using a real-time kernel.
But none of them worked.
The conclusion is that audio on the Linux OS is poor.

Meanwhile, TinHifi firmware sounds better on the Linux operating system (read: ticking sounds are very rare and sound quieter).

 

[pers]

When applying EQ using KTMicro.
For Preamp: -1.7 dB and Preamp: -2.2 dB, is it sufficient to set the DAC volume gain to -3.0 dB?
Because the available gain is only multiples of -1.5/1.5.
I use JM12 and a generic KT02H20 USB dongle with TinHifi firmware for use in the car and at the office with different IEMs.
Thank you in advance.

This does not seem to be an issue with FiiO firmware.
Internal processing is automatically performed to reduce gain.

I thought the ticking sound issue was caused by the FiiO firmware because that's what the reports said.
It turns out that in my case, the issue only occurs on Linux OS (Fedora/Debian with PipeWire/PulseAudio).
I don't experience it on Windows 10 and Android.
Tested with local music using DeadBeef Music Player and Foobar2000.
Also streaming https://music.youtube.com

I have tried fixing it using several methods found here:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/PipeWire#Troubleshooting
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/PulseAudio/Troubleshooting
As well as other methods I found online.
I also tried using a real-time kernel.
But none of them worked.
The conclusion is that audio on the Linux OS is poor.

Meanwhile, TinHifi firmware sounds better on the Linux operating system (read: ticking sounds are very rare and sound quieter).

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this before.
It turns out that switching to UAC 1.0 mode fixes the ticking sound problem on Linux OS.
Of course, the downside is that the available sample rates are limited to:
44100, 48000, 88200, 96000 / 16
44100, 88200, 48000, 96000 / 24
But I don't care about that because all my local music libraries are 44100/16.

With the TinHifi firmware, I still hear a ticking sound, though rarely.
But with the FiiO firmware and UAC 1.0, I haven't heard it at all in the past few days.

I also noticed that the FiiO Music app on Android has volume issues with UAC 1.0.
But Hiby Music doesn't have any problems.

 

[jose_user]

Hello.

My first comment in this comunity, even thoug I have been following it for ages.

I bought a JM12 and a JA11. My plan was to use them with an active monitor and koss portapro, but after reading this thread I am a bit confuse. I installed the JA11 firmware on my Jcally JM12. Honestly, I didn't notice any of the issues described here. Do you think that I don't experience these problems because I don't use very sensitive headphones? Or does it have to do with I set the volumen of the dongles to 80% with my active monitor and them DRE is not working?

By the way, I use the dongle with VLC and web browsers, mainly in Linux and sometimes in Windows 10.

I would like to give a try to the TinHifi firmware. Any idea how can I install it on my JM12? I read the thread again and discovered it was explained in page #16.

Thank you.

 

[HissingFree]

Hello.

My first comment in this comunity, even thoug I have been following it for ages.

I bought a JM12 and a JA11. My plan was to use them with an active monitor and koss portapro, but after reading this thread I am a bit confuse. I installed the JA11 firmware on my Jcally JM12. Honestly, I didn't notice any of the issues described here. Do you think that I don't experience these problems because I don't use very sensitive headphones? Or does it have to do with I set the volumen of the dongles to 80% with my active monitor and them DRE is not working?

By the way, I use the dongle with VLC and web browsers, mainly in Linux and sometimes in Windows 10.

I would like to give a try to the TinHifi firmware. Any idea how can I install it on my JM12? I read the thread again and discovered it was explained in page #16.

Thank you.

Yes headphone sensitivity matters for these issues to be noticeable, if I use my DT 770 pro, I don't notice such issues, or maybe they are so small I don't care. A lot of IEMs will reveal the issues however.

 

[jose_user]

Yes headphone sensitivity matters for these issues to be noticeable, if I use my DT 770 pro, I don't notice such issues, or maybe they are so small I don't care. A lot of IEMs will reveal the issues however.

Thanks, HissingFree. I should have read your reply before trying to install the TinHifi firmware to my JM12. I ended up with a bricked dongle... I cannot install any firmware using the fiio app nor TinHifi tool. So now I will have to buy a new one. I guess it's a small price to pay for being too curious.

 

[pers]

I installed the JA11 firmware on my Jcally JM12. Honestly, I didn't notice any of the issues described here. Do you think that I don't experience these problems because I don't use very sensitive headphones?

It seems so.
The https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.phps have no effect on my headphones (Takstar HD2000).
But they do affect my 4 iems.

The JA11 firmware has a problem skipping about 0.5 seconds at the beginning of the audio (occurs on Android and PC).
Steps to Reproduce:
1. Open the music player app and play a new song.
2. Or pause playback, scroll to the beginning, wait about 5 seconds, then play again.
3. Or you can also pause playback, wait about 5 seconds, then resume playback.

This also occurs when streaming movies/videos or music videos.
This is the most annoying issue for me right now on the JA11 firmware.

 

[jose_user]

It seems so.
The https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.phps have no effect on my headphones (Takstar HD2000).
But they do affect my 4 iems.

The JA11 firmware has a problem skipping about 0.5 seconds at the beginning of the audio (occurs on Android and PC).
Steps to Reproduce:
1. Open the music player app and play a new song.
2. Or pause playback, scroll to the beginning, wait about 5 seconds, then play again.
3. Or you can also pause playback, wait about 5 seconds, then resume playback.

This also occurs when streaming movies/videos or music videos.
This is the most annoying issue for me right now on the JA11 firmware.

Hello!

The audio lag didn't happend to me with VLC but it did with Youtube. I don't know why. It happened with Linux and Win10. I didn't try it with Android and now I cannot do it because I bricked the dongle. What a shame...

I have just bought a Hi-Max CB1200AU recommended by Jkim. But I'm a little concerned about its durability and quality.

I have an active monitor with a couple resonance I'd like to cut down. I can use EasyEffects (an great software, by the way) on Linux in order to set up some EQ filters, but I cannot do it in Win10, because I'm not the Administrator of this laptop. This is the reason I need a dongle with DSP.

Thank you and have a nice day.

 

[pers]

The JA11 firmware has a problem skipping about 0.5 seconds at the beginning of the audio (occurs on Android and PC).
Steps to Reproduce:
1. Open the music player app and play a new song.
2. Or pause playback, scroll to the beginning, wait about 5 seconds, then play again.
3. Or you can also pause playback, wait about 5 seconds, then resume playback.

This also occurs when streaming movies/videos or music videos.
This is the most annoying issue for me right now on the JA11 firmware.

Hello!

The audio lag didn't happend to me with VLC but it did with Youtube. I don't know why. It happened with Linux and Win10. I didn't try it with Android and now I cannot do it because I bricked the dongle. What a shame...

I have just bought a Hi-Max CB1200AU recommended by Jkim. But I'm a little concerned about its durability and quality.

I have an active monitor with a couple resonance I'd like to cut down. I can use EasyEffects (an great software, by the way) on Linux in order to set up some EQ filters, but I cannot do it in Win10, because I'm not the Administrator of this laptop. This is the reason I need a dongle with DSP.

Thank you and have a nice day.

It turns out that UAC 1.0 was the cause!
That's why I experienced this recently after I switched from UAC 2.0 to UAC 1.0 to fix a ticking sound issue on Linux.
As far as I can remember, this never happened before.
And after I switched back to UAC 2.0, this problem disappeared.
Tested on Windows, Linux, and Android.

Actually, I wanted to order the BGVP C01 with the CB1200 chip and Walkplay support, but ended up ordering the Fiio Melody instead.

 

[jose_user]

Thanks! I'll give it a shot.

Aaaaand it's bricked! LOL.
It looked like it went through with the TinHifi firmware update just fine, but it did not come to life after I unplugged it and tried to use it. Now I can't find it using either the Fiio firmware update, nor the TinHifi utility.

I guess I did something wrong, but what it was I could not tell because the app is all in Chinese and I was following the steps in the guide as well as I could.

If anyone here can find answers how to force a firmware update on it, I would appreciate it.

Hello JanL.

I bricked my dongle too. hehe. Did you find any way to unlock the dongle?

Thank you.

 

[HissingFree]

Hello JanL.

I bricked my dongle too. hehe. Did you find any way to unlock the dongle?

Thank you.

You should be able to install JA11 firmware using a PC I think.