FiiO has released the USBDAC JA11, with an initial price of only $9 (69RMB) and support for PEQ DSD128 PCM384

[pers]

Guys, I just saw someone reporting a DRE issue on the JA11 firmware.
Of course it wasn't me, because I'm not a techie like you guys and don't understand anything about audio or even the terms.

The good news is that the report was responded to by the admin there and has been forwarded to FiiO engineers.
Maybe someone more knowledgeable can make a better report?

 

[multiformous]

It's really interesting to see (and hear) how the firmware can make such a difference. But what I find strange/annoying about the TinHiFi firmware is that it doesn't support 44.1kHz sampling rates!

 

[CedarX]

It's really interesting to see (and hear) how the firmware can make such a difference. But what I find strange/annoying about the TinHiFi firmware is that it doesn't support 44.1kHz sampling rates!

The firmware configures the chip through a bunch of registers or function callouts. These configuration settings, more than the firmware itself, would be the interesting part IMO: giving us some clues about the chip available features and how the OEMs use them (or not!).

 

[jkim]

It's really interesting to see (and hear) how the firmware can make such a difference. But what I find strange/annoying about the TinHiFi firmware is that it doesn't support 44.1kHz sampling rates!

Why is the 44.1 kHz sampling rate so important to you? Because of bit-perfect (or sample-rate-perfect) playback? There is some misconception about that. Even if the content is not resampled by the operating system, it will be resampled by the DAC with its oversampling algorithm in its filter, anyway (unless you can use non-oversampling mode, which you don't want normally). One may say resampling in the DAC should be of higher quality than the OS one. How can we know? In fact, oversampling algorithms have been cookbook recipes for quite a while. At least we know there's no problem with the quality of Windows' resampling. I will test UAPP pretty soon.

 

[multiformous]

Why is the 44.1 kHz sampling rate so important to you? Because of bit-perfect (or sample-rate-perfect) playback? There is some misconception about that. Even if the content is not resampled by the operating system, it will be resampled by the DAC with its oversampling algorithm in its filter, anyway (unless you can use non-oversampling mode, which you don't want normally). One may say resampling in the DAC should be of higher quality than the OS one. How can we know? In fact, oversampling algorithms have been cookbook recipes for quite a while. At least we know there's no problem with the quality of Windows' resampling. I will test UAPP pretty soon.

Yes, I do like to use 'bit-perfect' mode with UAPP on my Android device to avoid resampling. Typically I don't bother with that on Windows. It's really the exclusive mode in UAPP that's important since I find using any other player with Android audio is noisy (background hiss) on my old Huawei P20. It's that important, I just find the lack of 44.1kHz to be an odd quirk.

That being said, with TinHifi firmware on the JM12 I can't get audio out of the dongle in exclusive mode in either UAPP or Hiby players (but the JM12 with JA11 firmware works fine). So it's a moot point regardless. I have some other dongles that don't work in exclusive mode on my Android device either, like Meizu HiFi and the CX-based dongles. Meanwhile, other CS43131 dongles (Space, JM20 Max) work just fine. I guess it's a driver thing?

After playing around a bit with this dongle and the on-board PEQ, I ended up just buying the PEQ function within UAPP since that's basically all I use on Android anyways.

 

[jkim]

Yes, I do like to use 'bit-perfect' mode with UAPP on my Android device to avoid resampling. Typically I don't bother with that on Windows. It's really the exclusive mode in UAPP that's important since I find using any other player with Android audio is noisy (background hiss) on my old Huawei P20.

That being said, with TinHifi firmware on the JM12 I can't get audio out of dongle in exclusive mode in either UAPP or Hiby players (but the JM12 with JA11 firmware works fine). So it's a moot point regardless. I have some other dongles that don't work in exclusive mode on my Android device either, like Meizu HiFi and the CX-based dongles. Meanwhile, other CS43131 dongles (Space, JM20 Max) work just fine. I guess it's a driver thing?

After playing around a bit with this dongle and the on-board PEQ, I ended up just buying the PEQ function within UAPP since that's basically all I use on Android anyways.

Doesn't UAPP support a DAC's highest sample rate mode and work for this dongle on TinHifi FW? That is what I am going to test to see if that mode provides good quality resampling.

 

[multiformous]

Doesn't UAPP support a DAC's highest sample rate mode and work for this dongle on TinHifi FW? That is what I am going to test to see if that mode provides good quality resampling.

Regardless of whether I allow UAPP to upsample or use bit-perfect mode, I get "error starting playback" with JM12 on TinHifi FW. For whatever reason, I can't get audio out of UAPP in exclusive mode with the TinHifi firmware.

 

[jkim]

Regardless of whether I allow UAPP to upsample or use bit-perfect mode, I get "error starting playback" with JM12 on TinHifi FW. For whatever reason, I can't get audio out of UAPP in exclusive mode with the TinHifi firmware.

Just tried UAPP on my Pixel 8. Connected the JM12 on TinHifi FW. I have no problem playing any audio file upsampled to the DAC's highest sample rate 384 kHz.

 

[pers]

I finally installed the FiiO and TinHifi firmware on the JCALLY JM12.
The most annoying reason is that the stock JM12 firmware often makes the video stutter or stop when streaming video.
Forcing me to unplug and plug the DAC back in to fix it.

For example when I play videos on instagram it can happen at any time.
Or when I play a video on youtube without plugging in the DAC and then I plug in the DAC it can make the video I'm playing stutter.
That did not happen with the FiiO and TinHifi firmware (at least for this short test period).
I need to try it when I stream video with the DAC plugged in all the time.
Because I also experienced it when watching a tv series marathon (with pausing playback or without pausing as a trigger).

As mentioned, there are fewer codecs in the TinHifi firmware compared to the FiiO firmware.
This is a comparison I made on Linux OS:
FiiO
FIIO JadeAudio JA11 at usb-0000:00:1a.0-1.2, high speed : USB Audio

Playback:
Status: Running
Interface = 1
Altset = 3
Packet Size = 72
Momentary freq = 48000 Hz (0x6.0000)
Feedback Format = 16.16
Interface 1
Altset 1
Format: S16_LE
Channels: 2
Endpoint: 0x04 (4 OUT) (ASYNC)
Rates: 44100, 88200, 176400, 352800, 48000, 96000, 192000, 384000
Data packet interval: 125 us
Bits: 16
Channel map: FL FR
Sync Endpoint: 0x85 (5 IN)
Sync EP Interface: 1
Sync EP Altset: 1
Implicit Feedback Mode: No
Interface 1
Altset 2
Format: S24_3LE
Channels: 2
Endpoint: 0x04 (4 OUT) (ASYNC)
Rates: 44100, 88200, 176400, 352800, 48000, 96000, 192000, 384000
Data packet interval: 125 us
Bits: 24
Channel map: FL FR
Sync Endpoint: 0x85 (5 IN)
Sync EP Interface: 1
Sync EP Altset: 2
Implicit Feedback Mode: No
Interface 1
Altset 3
Format: S32_LE
Channels: 2
Endpoint: 0x04 (4 OUT) (ASYNC)
Rates: 44100, 88200, 176400, 352800, 48000, 96000, 192000, 384000
Data packet interval: 125 us
Bits: 32
Channel map: FL FR
Sync Endpoint: 0x85 (5 IN)
Sync EP Interface: 1
Sync EP Altset: 3
Implicit Feedback Mode: No

TinHifi
KTMicro USB-C Audio at usb-0000:00:1a.0-1.2, high speed : USB Audio

Playback:
Status: Running
Interface = 1
Altset = 3
Packet Size = 72
Momentary freq = 48000 Hz (0x6.0000)
Interface 1
Altset 1
Format: S16_LE
Channels: 2
Endpoint: 0x04 (4 OUT) (ADAPTIVE)
Rates: 48000, 96000, 192000, 384000
Data packet interval: 125 us
Bits: 16
Channel map: FL FR
Interface 1
Altset 2
Format: S24_3LE
Channels: 2
Endpoint: 0x04 (4 OUT) (ADAPTIVE)
Rates: 48000, 96000, 192000, 384000
Data packet interval: 125 us
Bits: 24
Channel map: FL FR
Interface 1
Altset 3
Format: S32_LE
Channels: 2
Endpoint: 0x04 (4 OUT) (ADAPTIVE)
Rates: 48000, 96000, 192000, 384000
Data packet interval: 125 us
Bits: 32
Channel map: FL FR


In addition to the problems with each firmware that have been mentioned by you guys in previous posts, I also noted:
On the FiiO firmware, there is a popping sound when unplugging the DAC from the smartphone.
On the TinHifi firmware, there is no popping sound when unplugging the DAC from the smartphone.
On the JCALLY firmware, there is a popping sound when unplugging the DAC from the smartphone (only when video stuttering occurs as I wrote above).

For now I will try the FiiO firmware for daily use.
Then the TinHifi firmware.
If there is nothing reliable then I will buy another DAC.

 

[jkim]

I finally installed the FiiO and TinHifi firmware on the JCALLY JM12.
The most annoying reason is that the stock JM12 firmware often makes the video stutter or stop when streaming video.
Forcing me to unplug and plug the DAC back in to fix it.

For example when I play videos on instagram it can happen at any time.
Or when I play a video on youtube without plugging in the DAC and then I plug in the DAC it can make the video I'm playing stutter.
That did not happen with the FiiO and TinHifi firmware (at least for this short test period).
I need to try it when I stream video with the DAC plugged in all the time.
Because I also experienced it when watching a tv series marathon (with pausing playback or without pausing as a trigger).

As mentioned, there are fewer codecs in the TinHifi firmware compared to the FiiO firmware.
This is a comparison I made on Linux OS:
FiiO
FIIO JadeAudio JA11 at usb-0000:00:1a.0-1.2, high speed : USB Audio

Playback:
Status: Running
Interface = 1
Altset = 3
Packet Size = 72
Momentary freq = 48000 Hz (0x6.0000)
Feedback Format = 16.16
Interface 1
Altset 1
Format: S16_LE
Channels: 2
Endpoint: 0x04 (4 OUT) (ASYNC)
Rates: 44100, 88200, 176400, 352800, 48000, 96000, 192000, 384000
Data packet interval: 125 us
Bits: 16
Channel map: FL FR
Sync Endpoint: 0x85 (5 IN)
Sync EP Interface: 1
Sync EP Altset: 1
Implicit Feedback Mode: No
Interface 1
Altset 2
Format: S24_3LE
Channels: 2
Endpoint: 0x04 (4 OUT) (ASYNC)
Rates: 44100, 88200, 176400, 352800, 48000, 96000, 192000, 384000
Data packet interval: 125 us
Bits: 24
Channel map: FL FR
Sync Endpoint: 0x85 (5 IN)
Sync EP Interface: 1
Sync EP Altset: 2
Implicit Feedback Mode: No
Interface 1
Altset 3
Format: S32_LE
Channels: 2
Endpoint: 0x04 (4 OUT) (ASYNC)
Rates: 44100, 88200, 176400, 352800, 48000, 96000, 192000, 384000
Data packet interval: 125 us
Bits: 32
Channel map: FL FR
Sync Endpoint: 0x85 (5 IN)
Sync EP Interface: 1
Sync EP Altset: 3
Implicit Feedback Mode: No

TinHifi
KTMicro USB-C Audio at usb-0000:00:1a.0-1.2, high speed : USB Audio

Playback:
Status: Running
Interface = 1
Altset = 3
Packet Size = 72
Momentary freq = 48000 Hz (0x6.0000)
Interface 1
Altset 1
Format: S16_LE
Channels: 2
Endpoint: 0x04 (4 OUT) (ADAPTIVE)
Rates: 48000, 96000, 192000, 384000
Data packet interval: 125 us
Bits: 16
Channel map: FL FR
Interface 1
Altset 2
Format: S24_3LE
Channels: 2
Endpoint: 0x04 (4 OUT) (ADAPTIVE)
Rates: 48000, 96000, 192000, 384000
Data packet interval: 125 us
Bits: 24
Channel map: FL FR
Interface 1
Altset 3
Format: S32_LE
Channels: 2
Endpoint: 0x04 (4 OUT) (ADAPTIVE)
Rates: 48000, 96000, 192000, 384000
Data packet interval: 125 us
Bits: 32
Channel map: FL FR


In addition to the problems with each firmware that have been mentioned by you guys in previous posts, I also noted:
On the FiiO firmware, there is a popping sound when unplugging the DAC from the smartphone.
On the TinHifi firmware, there is no popping sound when unplugging the DAC from the smartphone.
On the JCALLY firmware, there is a popping sound when unplugging the DAC from the smartphone (only when video stuttering occurs as I wrote above).

For now I will try the FiiO firmware for daily use.
Then the TinHifi firmware.
If there is nothing reliable then I will buy another DAC.

IMO, if you want to keep using the JM12, the TinHifi firmware is no brainer according to these tests. Why take all kinds of potential distortion just to get better noise performance? After flashing the TinHifi FW, make sure you run the KTmicro tool, refresh, choose the DAC, open, set all the volumes to 0, save, and close. The volume setting will be stored.

 

[pers]

IMO, if you want to keep using the JM12, the TinHifi firmware is no brainer according to these tests. Why take all kinds of potential distortion just to get better noise performance? After flashing the TinHifi FW, make sure you run the KTmicro tool, refresh, choose the DAC, open, set all the volumes to 0, close, and save. The volume setting will be stored.

Noted, thank you.

I also confirm that when I use the stock firmware JCALLY JM12 and play music using the FiiO Music app the crackling is constant all the time while the song is playing.
Like when playing Vinyl or FM radio.

But it does not happen with Fiio firmware and TinHifi firmware.

This is actually the first issue that bothered me after purchasing the JM12 and made me join this forum.

 

[pers]

make sure you run the KTmicro tool, refresh, choose the DAC, open, set all the volumes to 0, save, and close. The volume setting will be stored.

The video stuttering also happened with the Fiio firmware so I replaced it with the TinHifi firmware.

All of these?

 

[jkim]

Just the DAC, of course.

 

[jkim]

The video stuttering also happened with the Fiio firmware so I replaced it with the TinHifi firmware.

View attachment 463930

All of these?

By the way, the stuttering issue you described may be related to the unsteady response observed earlier in FFTs. If that is the case, even the TinHifi FW will not help. Please let us know.

 

[pers]

Please let us know.

I will report if it happens on TinHifi firmware.

Update:
This also happened with the TinHifi firmware.
This time it happened while unmuting an ig story.

Edit:
My linux machine has 20 volume levels.
Using the TinHifi firmware default volume (-1.5 dB) I still hear crackling at 15%, 20%, 25% volume using the rumble test.
The crackling at 30% volume is almost inaudible, but still present.
Unfortunately I never listen to music beyond 25% volume.
Should I reduce the volume of the DAC?
I only use this DAC with high-sensitivity IEMs.
What are the pros and cons?

 

[HissingFree]

IMO, if you want to keep using the JM12, the TinHifi firmware is no brainer according to these tests.

And then comes listening time, and the amount of hissing Tinhifi produces is just way too much for me with Salnotes Zero. With JA11 firmware I don't get hissing but I get the crackling. But guess what, crackling is only heard in select situations, hissing is there all the time.

 

[jkim]

And then comes listening time, and the amount of hissing Tinhifi produces is just way too much for me with Salnotes Zero. With JA11 firmware I don't get hissing but I get the crackling. But guess what, crackling is only heard in select situations, hissing is there all the time.

Hearing way too much hissing when listening to what material? You mean a silence hissing-test signal?

Of course, its dynamic range of 102 dB with DRE disabled on the TinHifi FW is quite limited by today's standard. It's like a DAC's performance a few decades ago.

But I am mostly fine with that. When listening to music with occasional soft passages or softly recorded music, I do notice slight hissing through my 7Hz x Crinacle Zero:2. But definitely not to the extent hindering listening enjoyment.

I do admit the decision is ultimately a matter of personal preference. But here's my take on this device:

• If you want to occasionally test this device using distortion-test signals for fun, choose the TinHifi FW
• Likewise, if you want to occasionally test this device using a hissing-test signal for fun, choose the JA11 FW
• If you want to just accept the device's true, hardware-limited noise performance (and still some quirks), choose the TinHifi FW and call it a day. In fact, I realize that all these cheap 1V dongles costing < $10 have essentially 16-bit resolution without the help of DRE.
• If you are bothered by any of its quirks, whether its noise or distortion or other behavior, just ditch it.

In any case, I for one will not use it with the JA11 FW. And as I said after all the testing, I do not recommend the JA11/JM12 to anyone for a new purchase. In my case, as I have quite a few DACs, there's no reason to use it.

 

[jkim]

Edit:
My linux machine has 20 volume levels.
Using the TinHifi firmware default volume (-1.5 dB) I still hear crackling at 15%, 20%, 25% volume using the rumble test.
The crackling at 30% volume is almost inaudible, but still present.

How about the JA11 FW? According to my test, the TinHifi produces much less distortion from the rumble signal.

Unfortunately I never listen to music beyond 25% volume.
Should I reduce the volume of the DAC?
I only use this DAC with high-sensitivity IEMs.
What are the pros and cons?

Try to reduce the volume in the KTmicro tool. I suspect it won't help.

 

[jonaslop9]

It's really interesting to see (and hear) how the firmware can make such a difference. But what I find strange/annoying about the TinHiFi firmware is that it doesn't support 44.1kHz sampling rates!

Hello, I'm sorry if i bother you with my newbie question.

So based on what you said, if that sample rate is not available after flashing that FW, if i play 44.1/16 files (the majority of my files coming from CD), won't they play?. On PC I use foobar, with output set to "[exclusive]".

 

[pers]

Hearing way too much hissing when listening to what material? You mean a silence hissing-test signal?

How about the JA11 FW? According to my test, the TinHifi produces much less distortion from the rumble signal.


Try to reduce the volume in the KTmicro tool. I suspect it won't help.

• Among the 3 firmwares, TinHifi firmware is the best when using silent test files.
• I've said in previous posts that there are no problems when listening to real tracks especially busy tracks (this applies to all three firmwares).
• The only annoyance is the occasional “click” sound during playback (this also applies to all three firmwares) but I find it happens most often with the TinHIfi firmware.

For me, there is no reason to go back to using the stock JCALLY firmware as it is the only firmware that has the constant crackling problem during playback using the FiiO music app.

I actually don't mind the silent test too much.
The real reason that made me change firmware was because of video stuttering.
So I will accept any shortcomings.
But yes with this I also learned that TinHifi firmware is also not “dead clean” as someone claimed in a previous post.