FiiO has released the USBDAC JA11, with an initial price of only $9 (69RMB) and support for PEQ DSD128 PCM384

[KDRN]

I started playing with the JA11 and the KTmicro payload configuration tool and noticed several features not exposed by the FiiO Control app that may (?) skew the measurements:

After you 'REFRESH' the devices list, select "JadeAudio JA11" in the the drop-down list, 'OPEN' the communication with JA11, and 'SYNC' the JA11 onboard settings to the utility tool, the first screen you see is the 'VOLUME' (gain) control:
View attachment 425850
The 'DAC' gain can be set between 'Mute', -18dB, up to +3dB (default 0dB) by steps of 1.5dB. The 'ADC' gain can be chosen from 0, - 6, 8,14, 20, 26, 32, and 44dB (in that order, default is 14dB). Note that the default screen, before "opening" the communication with JA11 shows separate 'DACL' and 'DACR' gain setting: some KTmicro chips must have this capability.

The second screen is the 'EQ' configuration. The ADC and DAC have each a set of 5x PEQs.
Here is the config. screen for the ADC:
View attachment 425853
And here is the config. screen for the DAC:
View attachment 425854
I haven't figured out what's going on exactly between the KTmicro utility and FiiO Control Web App... They can run concurrently, having both access to JA11 in real time, but they don't seem to command the same thing, and are messing each other... For example, The KTmicro tool has Peak (P), Low-Pass (LP), High-Pass (HP), and Low-Shelf (LS) on each filter, plus High-Shelf (HS) on filter #1 only. The FiiO Control WebApp (or Android App) has Peak (P), Low-Shelf (LS), and High-Shelf (HS) on each of the 5x filters, but no Low-Pass (LP) or High-Pass (HP). It's possible that the KTMicro chip only understands biquad coefficients, so what filter types are available would be app-specific...

The 'DRC' (Dynamic Range Compressor) screen is unique to the KTmicro utility. It has a noise gate and a limiter, and they are not set to "zero"
Settings for the noise gate are (I'm definitely not an expert...): 'THlow' (low threshold?), 'THhigh (high treshold?), 'noiseT' (?), 'GateVol' (noise gate gain?), 'AT' (Attack in ms), 'RT' (realease in ms).
View attachment 425855

Settings for the limiter are: 'point' (the point at which it starts limiting volume), 'AT' (attack in ms), 'RT' (release in ms), and a 'SOFT' transition setting.
View attachment 425857

I suspect the noise gate and limiter would definitely impact measurements and may explain the inconsistencies seen between different firmware and or JA11 vs. JM12 w/ FiiO FW.

The next two screens are about the USB configuration:
View attachment 425858

...and the registers settings:
View attachment 425862

This utility tool is interactive: if you select 'EN' (enable) on each screen, you can hear in real time the effect of whatever change you make. But I think it's a production-type tool: you cannot save the new settings directly to the JA11, Instead, you 'SAVE' them against a base FW (a .bin file you select) and the tool create an updated payload based on the base FW and the updated settings. It generate a new FW with the same name and a 'NEW' at the end. From there, you'll have to flash this new FW with either the FiiO utility or another tool included with this KTmicro utility...

There is also a 'DOWNLOAD' command, although the name appears misleading: what it does is to "download" the settings from an existing FW (.bin file). I imagine it is for the OEM audio engineers: they can start from the latest .bin they saved and continue playing with these settings offline if they wish (no need to have JA11 connected).

I also started to look at some random KTmicro-based dongles & cables. For example, this very modest $3.25 KZ USB-C upgrade cable (KT0210 chip?):
View attachment 425868

The KTmicro utility shows independent L/V gain (to compensate IEMs imbalance?):
View attachment 425869

It also shows an interesting ADC (mic.) EQ with two very high Q Low-Pass & Peak filters:
View attachment 425870
Some kind of mic. response compensation?

The default DAC EQ is weird:
View attachment 425871
Two very high Q Peak filters at 12.33 kHz, another one at 12.34 kHz, and one more at 26.98 kHz ??? WT...

Unlike JA11, the noise gate is not used:
View attachment 425872

And the limiter is set at -0.5dB instead of -3dB on the JA11:
View attachment 425873
I haven't checked whether I can generate a usable payload for this KZ cable based upon the JA11 firmware. If it's a different chip with a different base FW, I assume it will brick the KZ cable...

Main takeaway after this loooooong post: as we see more and more of these DSP-enabled chips, some of them surprisingly feature-rich (e.g. the above $3.25 KZ "cable"... Can we call this a cable?), I think we'll have to be cautious when drawing conclusions based on the measurements... without knowing what's happening under the hood.

speaking of DSPs. i wonder if theres a similar configuration tool for cx31993 dacs.. cause i think CX31993 has EQ capabilities since my KZ AM01 with a cx31993 + MAX97220 has this annoying v shaped response.. EQing with this dac + op-amp combo would be nice with the extra headroom and all

 

[CedarX]

speaking of DSPs. i wonder if theres a similar configuration tool for cx31993 dacs.. cause i think CX31993 has EQ capabilities since my KZ AM01 with a cx31993 + MAX97220 has this annoying v shaped response.. EQing with this dac + op-amp combo would be nice with the extra headroom and all

I would assume, Synaptics offers a similar configuration tool to their OEMs, but I have never seen it: I am only aware of this KTmicro and SpaceTouch (SPV40xx, CBHT 5100) tools.
If they work the same way, you would also need the base firmware in order to customize it with the configuration tool.

 

[vext01]

I really like this thing (JM12 with JA11 FW) for the EQ but it has the worst crackle of the dongles I have on hand with the "Rumble" test clip here: audiocheck

The clicking/popping/static distortion is a known issue with this dongle. Fiio know about it and claimed to have fixed it in firmware 2.1, but I still hear it on my samsung phone (with or without exclusive USB audio mode).

It sounds awful. The JA11 was a total waste of money

See this thread for various user reports:

https://forum.fiio.com/note/showNoteContent.do?id=202406211150090736905&tid=17

 

[popthere]

The clicking/popping/static distortion is a known issue with this dongle. Fiio know about it and claimed to have fixed it in firmware 2.1, but I still hear it on my samsung phone (with or without exclusive USB audio mode).

It sounds awful. The JA11 was a total waste of money

See this thread for various user reports:

https://forum.fiio.com/note/showNoteContent.do?id=202406211150090736905&tid=17

me too

 

[d1m0n]

me too

 

[KDRN]

I really like this thing (JM12 with JA11 FW) for the EQ but it has the worst crackle of the dongles I have on hand with the "Rumble" test clip here: audiocheck

oh i didnt noticed this until i did the rumble test... and yeah it kinda sucked.... i think it is a firmware issue. flashing the tinhifi fw that CedarX linked seem to not have that issue


edit: also i forgot how much background noise this chip has... its noticable with sensitive iems... i dont have an issue with my other dacs like cx31993 and alc5686

 

[popthere]

oh i didnt noticed this until i did the rumble test... and yeah it kinda sucked.... i think it is a firmware issue. flashing the tinhifi fw that CedarX linked seem to not have that issue


edit: also i forgot how much background noise this chip has... its noticable with sensitive iems... i dont have an issue with my other dacs like cx31993 and alc5686

so w can i do now

 

[multiformous]

I started playing with the JA11 and the KTmicro payload configuration tool and noticed several features not exposed by the FiiO Control app that may (?) skew the measurements:

After you 'REFRESH' the devices list, select "JadeAudio JA11" in the the drop-down list, 'OPEN' the communication with JA11, and 'SYNC' the JA11 onboard settings to the utility tool, the first screen you see is the 'VOLUME' (gain) control:
View attachment 425850
The 'DAC' gain can be set between 'Mute', -18dB, up to +3dB (default 0dB) by steps of 1.5dB. The 'ADC' gain can be chosen from 0, - 6, 8,14, 20, 26, 32, and 44dB (in that order, default is 14dB). Note that the default screen, before "opening" the communication with JA11 shows separate 'DACL' and 'DACR' gain setting: some KTmicro chips must have this capability.

The second screen is the 'EQ' configuration. The ADC and DAC have each a set of 5x PEQs.
Here is the config. screen for the ADC:
View attachment 425853
And here is the config. screen for the DAC:
View attachment 425854
I haven't figured out what's going on exactly between the KTmicro utility and FiiO Control Web App... They can run concurrently, having both access to JA11 in real time, but they don't seem to command the same thing, and are messing each other... For example, The KTmicro tool has Peak (P), Low-Pass (LP), High-Pass (HP), and Low-Shelf (LS) on each filter, plus High-Shelf (HS) on filter #1 only. The FiiO Control WebApp (or Android App) has Peak (P), Low-Shelf (LS), and High-Shelf (HS) on each of the 5x filters, but no Low-Pass (LP) or High-Pass (HP). It's possible that the KTMicro chip only understands biquad coefficients, so what filter types are available would be app-specific...

The 'DRC' (Dynamic Range Compressor) screen is unique to the KTmicro utility. It has a noise gate and a limiter, and they are not set to "zero"
Settings for the noise gate are (I'm definitely not an expert...): 'THlow' (low threshold?), 'THhigh (high treshold?), 'noiseT' (?), 'GateVol' (noise gate gain?), 'AT' (Attack in ms), 'RT' (realease in ms).
View attachment 425855

Settings for the limiter are: 'point' (the point at which it starts limiting volume), 'AT' (attack in ms), 'RT' (release in ms), and a 'SOFT' transition setting.
View attachment 425857

I suspect the noise gate and limiter would definitely impact measurements and may explain the inconsistencies seen between different firmware and or JA11 vs. JM12 w/ FiiO FW.

The next two screens are about the USB configuration:
View attachment 425858

...and the registers settings:
View attachment 425862

This utility tool is interactive: if you select 'EN' (enable) on each screen, you can hear in real time the effect of whatever change you make. But I think it's a production-type tool: you cannot save the new settings directly to the JA11, Instead, you 'SAVE' them against a base FW (a .bin file you select) and the tool create an updated payload based on the base FW and the updated settings. It generate a new FW with the same name and a 'NEW' at the end. From there, you'll have to flash this new FW with either the FiiO utility or another tool included with this KTmicro utility...

There is also a 'DOWNLOAD' command, although the name appears misleading: what it does is to "download" the settings from an existing FW (.bin file). I imagine it is for the OEM audio engineers: they can start from the latest .bin they saved and continue playing with these settings offline if they wish (no need to have JA11 connected).

I also started to look at some random KTmicro-based dongles & cables. For example, this very modest $3.25 KZ USB-C upgrade cable (KT0210 chip?):
View attachment 425868

The KTmicro utility shows independent L/V gain (to compensate IEMs imbalance?):
View attachment 425869

It also shows an interesting ADC (mic.) EQ with two very high Q Low-Pass & Peak filters:
View attachment 425870
Some kind of mic. response compensation?

The default DAC EQ is weird:
View attachment 425871
Two very high Q Peak filters at 12.33 kHz, another one at 12.34 kHz, and one more at 26.98 kHz ??? WT...

Unlike JA11, the noise gate is not used:
View attachment 425872

And the limiter is set at -0.5dB instead of -3dB on the JA11:
View attachment 425873
I haven't checked whether I can generate a usable payload for this KZ cable based upon the JA11 firmware. If it's a different chip with a different base FW, I assume it will brick the KZ cable...

Main takeaway after this loooooong post: as we see more and more of these DSP-enabled chips, some of them surprisingly feature-rich (e.g. the above $3.25 KZ "cable"... Can we call this a cable?), I think we'll have to be cautious when drawing conclusions based on the measurements... without knowing what's happening under the hood.

I use the JM12 with JA11 firmware. Is there anything worth changing on the JA11/JM12 with this tool based on your tests with it? Would the DRC only apply to the MIC input?

 

[CedarX]

I really like this thing (JM12 with JA11 FW) for the EQ but it has the worst crackle of the dongles I have on hand with the "Rumble" test clip here: audiocheck

Just ran this rumble test clip: what crackle are you referring to? The initial one, when you start the test? if this it... yeah, but I also hear it on multiple dongles, and JA11 does not appear to be worse. If I let the test finish an restart it within a couple of seconds, no crackle. However, if I wait a little bit longer (say 5s), i hear a crackle when I restart the test.
This could be related to some power saving feature... but I don't know for sure!

 

[vext01]

It doesn't seem to affect everyone, but it should be obvious something is wrong if you are bitten by this.

As I said in the forum post I linked above:

You can make it really noticable by setting the device volume quite low in the Fiio control app (around 10%), then play a track with a quiet intro and turn the system mixer volume up until the music is audible.

It's like a ticking/crackling/clicking distortion. Almost sounds like clipping.

 

[CedarX]

I use the JM12 with JA11 firmware. Is there anything worth changing on the JA11/JM12 with this tool based on your tests with it? Would the DRC only apply to the MIC input?

The DRC limiter feature is definitely applied on the hp out, the effect is clearly audible. I'm not too sure about the noise gate: I don't know what I should "listen for"
Worth changing... This tool is intended to modify a base fw, but I don't know what it does exactly. I haven't checked whether I could modify the base FiiO fw incorporating, for example, a different (audible) limiter setting, without bricking the JA11...

 

[danadam]

Just ran this rumble test clip: what crackle are you referring to? The initial one, when you start the test?

No, through the whole the track. In attachment there is captured output from JA11 and Samsung dongle played at similar volume. In alsamixer JA11 was at -29 dB and Samsung dongle was at -25.5 dB. Through Truthear Zero Blue that's moderate volume. The captured audio contains some music in the first half, so you can calibrate for yourself how loud you would listen to it. Then you can compare the difference in the rumble part.

Here's how it looks on spectrograms:

Samsung:

JA11:

And the cause of the clicks in the waveform view:

 

[CedarX]

It doesn't seem to affect everyone, but it should be obvious something is wrong if you are bitten by this.

As I said in the forum post I linked above:



It's like a ticking/crackling/clicking distortion. Almost sounds like clipping.

Ok... Are you referring to what happens when you increase the Global Gain (Fiio Control webapp) above ~3-4dB? Then yes, it gets really bad...
The DAC L&R "PGA analog volume" and "DRC Limiter" setting have some effects on this: can eliminate this crackle / clipping sound, but I don't know the tradeoffs.

 

[vext01]

Ok... Are you referring to what happens when you increase the Global Gain (Fiio Control webapp) above ~3-4dB?

I'm just using it with the Fiio control app one an android phone. The volume setting I refer to is called "Device volume".

To be clear, the distortion is always present and (to me) very noticable in quieter passages of music. The technique I described just exaggerates the effect.

 

[CedarX]

No, through the whole the track. In attachment there is captured output from JA11 and Samsung dongle played at similar volume. In alsamixer JA11 was at -29 dB and Samsung dongle was at -25.5 dB. Through Truthear Zero Blue that's moderate volume. The captured audio contains some music in the first half, so you can calibrate for yourself how loud you would listen to it. Then you can compare the difference in the rumble part.

Here's how it looks on spectrograms:

Samsung:
View attachment 432236

JA11:
View attachment 432237

And the cause of the clicks in the waveform view:
View attachment 432241

Thanks for the attachments! And yes, I think we are talking about the same thing. I definitely hear these clicks when running the rumble test from audiocheck.net (the one called "Rumble In Phase").
What appears to impact it:

• The global gain control in the FiiO Control WebApp (was playing from my work laptop )
• The "PGA (analog volume)" parameter in the KTmicro config. app.
• The "DRC Limiter" "point" setting in the KTmicro config. app.

Thit seems to be some DSP / Gain / Volume setting thing... Something not configured properly in the FiiO fw?

 

[multiformous]

Just ran this rumble test clip: what crackle are you referring to? The initial one, when you start the test? if this it... yeah, but I also hear it on multiple dongles, and JA11 does not appear to be worse. If I let the test finish an restart it within a couple of seconds, no crackle. However, if I wait a little bit longer (say 5s), i hear a crackle when I restart the test.
This could be related to some power saving feature... but I don't know for sure!

Crackles constantly for me on both Windows and Android with JM12 (JA11 firmware) regardless of volume level and with EQ on or off. It's like that CS43131 test.

 

[CedarX]

I am still trying to figure out all these volume/gain settings for the JA11 and how they impact or not these "crackles" issues. It seems that the 'global gain control' parameter in the FiiO Control WebApp plays a big role... More tests needed.

Spoiler: More stuff about KTmicro

I also noticed an interesting feature of the KTmicro config tool:

• JA11, JM12 w/ JA11 fw: the volume and DRC settings (noise gate & limiter) "stick". If you click 'SAVE' (you need to enable them first, by making sure the 'EN' button is green). The settings carry over if you connect JA11 to another source. I had not noticed that as I was mostly playing with the PEQ: the PEQ settings entered in the KT micro config tool are "live", but they do not "stick". Clicking the 'SAVE' button saves the volume and DRC settings, but not the PEQ settings.
• JM12 OG fw, JM12 w/ TinHifi fw, KBear TC12 (JM12 with different marking?), Veclan (Monk) Odo (3.5mm & 4.4mm), TinHifi C2 IEM: all of these are based on the KT02H20 chip an all the settings entered in the KTmicro config tool "stick". You can set the volume parameters, ADC & DAC PEQ parameters, DRC (need to "enable" all of them first), and click "SAVE". I need to verify, but it looks like closing the communication ('CLOSE' button) also saves these parameters. The interesting point is that this KTmicro tool is a potential alternative to the FiiO Control WebApp for these dongles/IEMs. It is not as slick as the FiiO webapp, but it exposes more settings... Oh and it's a self-contained '.exe' (does not install anything on your PC). I updated a JM12 w/ JA11 fw (swapping fw) to the TinHifi fw with no issue.
• Simgot EW100 DSP IEM: same as above, all the settings entered into the KTmicro config tool "stick". This one was interesting to me as it is based on the (uncommon?) KT0211L chip. It has balanced (differential) outputs and has the separate L/R volume function enabled (so you could correct a L/R IEM imbalance). The Simgot EQ presets are exposed and can be modified. You can play with the DRC as well.

Spoiler: Simgot EW100 DSP (KT0211L) Config

Screenshot showing the "DACL / DACR" separate L/R volume settings available on the KT0211L:

Screenshot of the (fairly simple) Simgot EQ preset:

It's always interesting to see what the OEMs "correct" on their own IEM: what they could not achieve with traditional tuning?

Screenshot of the Simgot DRC Noisegate settings. They appear to have changed the low threshold from -45 dB to -40 dB. The other parameters are the default ones:

Screenshot of Simgot DRC limiter settings (default):

I also confirmed that this version of the KTmicro tool does not work with the (very common) KT0210. As the Windows title indicates, it seems to only work with the KT0211L & KT02H20 chips (are these two SoC related?).

EDIT: Well... The KTmicro tool does not really work with the KT0210... but it is usable (I tested it with my KZ upgrade cable). The tool is "confused" because the registry map of the KT0210 is different from the KT02H20 one. That's why the EQ curve from the KT0210 is completely goofy: the tool pulls the stored settings from the wrong registers.
For example, on the KT02H20, the DAC PEQ settings are stored in Registers 0x26 to 0x2F (5x filters), whereas on the KT0210, they are stored on Registers 0x35 to 0x40 (6x filters! I assumed it was limited to 5x filters...).

How the KTmicro tool can be used for the KT0210:

• If I write 0x00C80050 (13107280 dec) in Register 0x35, and 0x000302BC (197308 dec) in Register 0x36, I set a Low-Shelf filter at 200 Hz, with a gain of +8.0dB and a Q of 0.7. It is live (effect is immediately audible) and if I click 'SAVE', it saves that filter onto the KT02010 and triggers a reset/restart.

I have not checked if every PEQ filter type is available (they all appear to be here), nor the Volume controls, ADC PEQ, DRC features. But the KTmicro tool is definitely usable if one wants to access & program the KT0210 DSP features. What's needed is the full registers map and some formulas to calculate the settings hex. values.

 

[MCH]

@CedarX thanks for all the information you share.
Have you ever found any of these dongles that expose the I2S signals? Be it in unused pins or between 2 chips arrangements? I guess the answer is no, but in case...
PS: another KT0211L seems to be the jcally pj3 cable

 

[CedarX]

@CedarX thanks for all the information you share.

You're welcome! I realize it's largely anecdotal and OT. I'll definitely use the spoiler feature more! For example, I'm almost done mapping the KT02H20 internal registers to each of the high-level setting (Volume, PEQ, DRC, etc.) but it's more for the the fun of peeking under the hood than any practical usage.

Have you ever found any of these dongles that expose the I2S signals? Be it in unused pins or between 2 chips arrangements? I guess the answer is no, but in case...

No, I haven’t… I suppose for those dongles that have a separate USB bridge, it should be possible to snoop around and intercept the I2S signals. But I don't know if it's worth the efforts... As you certainly know, there are plenty of XMOS-based or Amanero clone interfaces available in places like AliExpress.

PS: another KT0211L seems to be the jcally pj3 cable

The JCally PJ3 is listed as using a (newer) KT0231H SoC. Differential outputs like the KT0211L, but capable of 24/384, and without DRC (per KTmicro information). I have a couple on order, will see what they can and can't do...

EDIT: - I received the JCally PJ3 cable: definitely a KT0231H.

 

[MCH]

Thanks!

The JCally PJ3 is listed as using a (newer) KT0231H SoC. Differential outputs like the KT0211L, but capable of 24/384, and without DRC (per KTmicro information). I have a couple on order, will see what they can and can't do...

Interesting. There could be two versions... Or the usual AliExpress missinformation: