Thank you for the quick reply, did you just use the utility in the ja11 firmware download package to update it? Or there is another method?
-
WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
FiiO has released the USBDAC JA11, with an initial price of only $9 (69RMB) and support for PEQ DSD128 PCM384
My JM12 also looks like the one in the second picture.
I used the FiiO utility to update it to the JA11 fw, no issue.
multiformous
Member
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2023
- Messages
- 48
- Likes
- 47
I updated on PC using the utility from Fiio's website to turn my JM12 into a JA11. I've updated firmware on it a few times on PC, not via the Android app.
Checking boxes laying around in the basement, I realized I have both versions of the JM12:
The blue-ish one was already upgraded to the JA11 v2.10 fw. I just upgraded the 2nd JM12 to JA11 v2.10 using the FiiO upgrade tool—no issue.
I also have two JA11s, one was still at v2.0, and I upgraded it to v2.10 using the FiiO Control webapp—again, no issue.
So now, I have 4x JA11-equivalent dongles …
The blue-ish one was already upgraded to the JA11 v2.10 fw. I just upgraded the 2nd JM12 to JA11 v2.10 using the FiiO upgrade tool—no issue.
I also have two JA11s, one was still at v2.0, and I upgraded it to v2.10 using the FiiO Control webapp—again, no issue.
So now, I have 4x JA11-equivalent dongles …
Thank you, I was looking to buy the other one as it's cheaper and was wondering if it's the same hardware. Did you notice any difference after the flash?Checking boxes laying around in the basement, I realized I have both versions of the JM12:
View attachment 421331
The blue-ish one was already upgraded to the JA11 v2.10 fw. I just upgraded the 2nd JM12 to JA11 v2.10 using the FiiO upgrade tool—no issue.
I also have two JA11s, one was still at v2.0, and I upgraded it to v2.10 using the FiiO Control webapp—again, no issue.
So now, I have 4x JA11-equivalent dongles …
No difference that I could notice.
I´ve had to chime in, JA11 is a little beast.
I couldn't be happier; I just resurrected an old pair of headphones that had a lot of potential, but Sennheiser messed with the tuning on the Momentum V2.
PEQ on really cheap and portable dongle is the way.
Congrats FIIO.
I couldn't be happier; I just resurrected an old pair of headphones that had a lot of potential, but Sennheiser messed with the tuning on the Momentum V2.
PEQ on really cheap and portable dongle is the way.
Congrats FIIO.
I still dont get it.
0 db is -12db? So 12 dB is about 0dB and I should adujst the global gain according to the headroom to +/-0dB created by the highest local gain used?
multiformous
Member
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2023
- Messages
- 48
- Likes
- 47
Yes, if you enable EQ in the app and leave the master gain at "0" the you are in reality applying -12dB of preamp. It's like they are giving you all the 'headroom' you need to EQ safely by default (if the user doesn't understand why negative preamp is necessary) because the individual filters for EQ range from +/- 12dB.
So if you need -6dB of preamp to cover your boosts, then in the app you'd set the master gain to "+6". I'd go lower than this to be safe, especially if boosts are in the bass region, but then overall output has to be taken into account depending on the listener, average levels of the program material, and sensitivity of the headphone/IEM.
Thanks!
A noob question here. I am used to a combination of the Motu M4 headphone amp and Beyerdynamic DT 1990 PRO with Sonarworks correction, and it sounds great to me. I was testing the replacement of the M4 (which I need to repurpose for something else) with a spare JA11 (flat settings), and I did not like the resulting sound (it wasn't as "'smooth", and the low end in electronic music sounded worse). What could be the main reasons for the differences objectively? Is anyone happy driving similar headphones with the JA11?
First your ears & test conditions: have you eliminated any perception bias? Always possible IMHO, especially when testing a cheap dongle…
Second: you may run out of power… The DT 1990 Pro is not particularly sensitive—102 dBSPL (1mW / 500 Hz) per Beyer spec, 306mV to reach 94dBSPL measured by Amir—and the JA11 is not exactly a power monster.
Other reasons?
multiformous
Member
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2023
- Messages
- 48
- Likes
- 47
So if I'm reading this correctly, you're using EQ on one output and none on the other?
In both cases, I use the Sonarworks correction for the audio output and I don't use JA11's PEQ. So, the digital output should be equal.
Sorry for pulling this from so way back, is there gonna be any audible difference between JM12 with the v2.1 firmware and JA11? I got one JM12 flashed already, want to get one black JA11 just for aesthetic reasons as a spare.
I started playing with the JA11 and the KTmicro payload configuration tool and noticed several features not exposed by the FiiO Control app that may (?) skew the measurements:
After you 'REFRESH' the devices list, select "JadeAudio JA11" in the the drop-down list, 'OPEN' the communication with JA11, and 'SYNC' the JA11 onboard settings to the utility tool, the first screen you see is the 'VOLUME' (gain) control:
The 'DAC' gain can be set between 'Mute', -18dB, up to +3dB (default 0dB) by steps of 1.5dB. The 'ADC' gain can be chosen from 0, - 6, 8,14, 20, 26, 32, and 44dB (in that order, default is 14dB). Note that the default screen, before "opening" the communication with JA11 shows separate 'DACL' and 'DACR' gain setting: some KTmicro chips must have this capability.
The second screen is the 'EQ' configuration. The ADC and DAC have each a set of 5x PEQs.
Here is the config. screen for the ADC:
And here is the config. screen for the DAC:
I haven't figured out what's going on exactly between the KTmicro utility and FiiO Control Web App... They can run concurrently, having both access to JA11 in real time, but they don't seem to command the same thing, and are messing each other... For example, The KTmicro tool has Peak (P), Low-Pass (LP), High-Pass (HP), and Low-Shelf (LS) on each filter, plus High-Shelf (HS) on filter #1 only. The FiiO Control WebApp (or Android App) has Peak (P), Low-Shelf (LS), and High-Shelf (HS) on each of the 5x filters, but no Low-Pass (LP) or High-Pass (HP). It's possible that the KTMicro chip only understands biquad coefficients, so what filter types are available would be app-specific...
The 'DRC' (Dynamic Range Compressor) screen is unique to the KTmicro utility. It has a noise gate and a limiter, and they are not set to "zero"
Settings for the noise gate are (I'm definitely not an expert...): 'THlow' (low threshold?), 'THhigh (high treshold?), 'noiseT' (?), 'GateVol' (noise gate gain?), 'AT' (Attack in ms), 'RT' (realease in ms).
Settings for the limiter are: 'point' (the point at which it starts limiting volume), 'AT' (attack in ms), 'RT' (release in ms), and a 'SOFT' transition setting.
I suspect the noise gate and limiter would definitely impact measurements and may explain the inconsistencies seen between different firmware and or JA11 vs. JM12 w/ FiiO FW.
The next two screens are about the USB configuration:
...and the registers settings:
This utility tool is interactive: if you select 'EN' (enable) on each screen, you can hear in real time the effect of whatever change you make. But I think it's a production-type tool: you cannot save the new settings directly to the JA11, Instead, you 'SAVE' them against a base FW (a .bin file you select) and the tool create an updated payload based on the base FW and the updated settings. It generate a new FW with the same name and a 'NEW' at the end. From there, you'll have to flash this new FW with either the FiiO utility or another tool included with this KTmicro utility...
There is also a 'DOWNLOAD' command, although the name appears misleading: what it does is to "download" the settings from an existing FW (.bin file). I imagine it is for the OEM audio engineers: they can start from the latest .bin they saved and continue playing with these settings offline if they wish (no need to have JA11 connected).
I also started to look at some random KTmicro-based dongles & cables. For example, this very modest $3.25 KZ USB-C upgrade cable (KT0210 chip?):
The KTmicro utility shows independent L/V gain (to compensate IEMs imbalance?):
It also shows an interesting ADC (mic.) EQ with two very high Q Low-Pass & Peak filters:
Some kind of mic. response compensation?
The default DAC EQ is weird:
Two very high Q Peak filters at 12.33 kHz, another one at 12.34 kHz, and one more at 26.98 kHz ??? WT...
Unlike JA11, the noise gate is not used:
And the limiter is set at -0.5dB instead of -3dB on the JA11:
I haven't checked whether I can generate a usable payload for this KZ cable based upon the JA11 firmware. If it's a different chip with a different base FW, I assume it will brick the KZ cable...
Main takeaway after this loooooong post: as we see more and more of these DSP-enabled chips, some of them surprisingly feature-rich (e.g. the above $3.25 KZ "cable"... Can we call this a cable?), I think we'll have to be cautious when drawing conclusions based on the measurements... without knowing what's happening under the hood.
After you 'REFRESH' the devices list, select "JadeAudio JA11" in the the drop-down list, 'OPEN' the communication with JA11, and 'SYNC' the JA11 onboard settings to the utility tool, the first screen you see is the 'VOLUME' (gain) control:
The 'DAC' gain can be set between 'Mute', -18dB, up to +3dB (default 0dB) by steps of 1.5dB. The 'ADC' gain can be chosen from 0, - 6, 8,14, 20, 26, 32, and 44dB (in that order, default is 14dB). Note that the default screen, before "opening" the communication with JA11 shows separate 'DACL' and 'DACR' gain setting: some KTmicro chips must have this capability.
The second screen is the 'EQ' configuration. The ADC and DAC have each a set of 5x PEQs.
Here is the config. screen for the ADC:
And here is the config. screen for the DAC:
I haven't figured out what's going on exactly between the KTmicro utility and FiiO Control Web App... They can run concurrently, having both access to JA11 in real time, but they don't seem to command the same thing, and are messing each other... For example, The KTmicro tool has Peak (P), Low-Pass (LP), High-Pass (HP), and Low-Shelf (LS) on each filter, plus High-Shelf (HS) on filter #1 only. The FiiO Control WebApp (or Android App) has Peak (P), Low-Shelf (LS), and High-Shelf (HS) on each of the 5x filters, but no Low-Pass (LP) or High-Pass (HP). It's possible that the KTMicro chip only understands biquad coefficients, so what filter types are available would be app-specific...
The 'DRC' (Dynamic Range Compressor) screen is unique to the KTmicro utility. It has a noise gate and a limiter, and they are not set to "zero"
Settings for the noise gate are (I'm definitely not an expert...): 'THlow' (low threshold?), 'THhigh (high treshold?), 'noiseT' (?), 'GateVol' (noise gate gain?), 'AT' (Attack in ms), 'RT' (realease in ms).
Settings for the limiter are: 'point' (the point at which it starts limiting volume), 'AT' (attack in ms), 'RT' (release in ms), and a 'SOFT' transition setting.
I suspect the noise gate and limiter would definitely impact measurements and may explain the inconsistencies seen between different firmware and or JA11 vs. JM12 w/ FiiO FW.
The next two screens are about the USB configuration:
...and the registers settings:
This utility tool is interactive: if you select 'EN' (enable) on each screen, you can hear in real time the effect of whatever change you make. But I think it's a production-type tool: you cannot save the new settings directly to the JA11, Instead, you 'SAVE' them against a base FW (a .bin file you select) and the tool create an updated payload based on the base FW and the updated settings. It generate a new FW with the same name and a 'NEW' at the end. From there, you'll have to flash this new FW with either the FiiO utility or another tool included with this KTmicro utility...
There is also a 'DOWNLOAD' command, although the name appears misleading: what it does is to "download" the settings from an existing FW (.bin file). I imagine it is for the OEM audio engineers: they can start from the latest .bin they saved and continue playing with these settings offline if they wish (no need to have JA11 connected).
I also started to look at some random KTmicro-based dongles & cables. For example, this very modest $3.25 KZ USB-C upgrade cable (KT0210 chip?):
The KTmicro utility shows independent L/V gain (to compensate IEMs imbalance?):
It also shows an interesting ADC (mic.) EQ with two very high Q Low-Pass & Peak filters:
Some kind of mic. response compensation?
The default DAC EQ is weird:
Two very high Q Peak filters at 12.33 kHz, another one at 12.34 kHz, and one more at 26.98 kHz ??? WT...
Unlike JA11, the noise gate is not used:
And the limiter is set at -0.5dB instead of -3dB on the JA11:
I haven't checked whether I can generate a usable payload for this KZ cable based upon the JA11 firmware. If it's a different chip with a different base FW, I assume it will brick the KZ cable...
Main takeaway after this loooooong post: as we see more and more of these DSP-enabled chips, some of them surprisingly feature-rich (e.g. the above $3.25 KZ "cable"... Can we call this a cable?), I think we'll have to be cautious when drawing conclusions based on the measurements... without knowing what's happening under the hood.
Last edited:
kekotron
Member
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2022
- Messages
- 10
- Likes
- 13
nice write-up, where to get this payload configuration tool from?
I have been looking for this tool for a couple of years, since Wolf at L7Audiolab reviewed the Tanchjim Zero DSP and showed a screenshot of that tool (an early version). At the time, I believe the Tanchjim’s Android app was not yet available.
Anyway, I found it recently in TinHifi website at: https://www.tinhifi.com/pages/eq
I bought a TinHifi C2 IEM, in its USB-C version:
It uses the same KT02H20 as the JA11 (should be re-flashable to FiiO FW), and this appears to be the tool TinHifi recommends until they develop their own app (ETA TBC).
Note that besides your question, I only got one PM request for a link to this tool. I personally find playing with the settings super interesting (e.g. the DRC limiter is definitely audible, in a surprisingly good way with the right settings), but I realize I’m part of a very small minority…
kekotron
Member
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2022
- Messages
- 10
- Likes
- 13
Ah right, I also remember that screenshot from L7Audio's review and going on a search binge lol. Thank you very much!
multiformous
Member
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2023
- Messages
- 48
- Likes
- 47
I really like this thing (JM12 with JA11 FW) for the EQ but it has the worst crackle of the dongles I have on hand with the "Rumble" test clip here: audiocheck
Last edited:
Similar threads
