Fiio FT1 Headphone Review

[FTB]

That you like Harman curve or not, you can't say it isn't science and made for money.

 

[Rincewind42]

That you like Harman curve or not, you can't say it isn't science and made for money.

Sure I can! I just did Scientists do that to each other all the time and hate each other's guts. It's normal. It's human

 

[solderdude]

Another problem with the Harman research is that FR conformance is just the tip of the iceberg. Microdynamics, macrodynamics, all sorts of "feel" things that you cannot express in charts and numbers are unaccounted for. I see it as an "average curve established by people who actually don't care too much about the finer details of music reproduction".

That's not a 'problem with the Harman research' though.
That research is about finding the most preferred tonal balance which is by far the most important aspects.
The beauty of the research is that it shows that not every one prefers that 'average' tonality.
35-40% of the people simply prefer a different tonality. This is what that research shows.
The thing was the goal is to find a 'target' that satisfies the majority of potential customers.
VERY VERY few headphones actually conform pretty exactly to that 'average' the vast majority deviates.
The research also was not about telling people that this target is what they have to like and all else is 'wrong'.

The whole micro- and macro-dynamics is also FR related by the way.
But indeed the research was not about resonances and distortion nor driver compression and seal issues (though it did pop up)

The Harman research is in no way invalidated nor problematic for those that prefer a different tonality or have certain wishes or find other aspects equally or even more important than the tonal balance.

The FT1 is not Harman compliant and may even be one of the reason you were not happy with it and returned it.

 

[FTB]

Sure I can! I just did Scientists do that to each other all the time and hate each other's guts. It's normal. It's human

No you can't.
It's called empathy and compassion instead of hate, THIS is human.
Why don't you send a PM here, on this forum, to Sean Olive, see if you have the "guts" ?

 

[Rincewind42]

No you can't.
It's called empathy and compassion instead of hate, THIS is human.
Why don't you send a PM here, on this forum, to Sean Olive, see if you have the "guts" ?

LOL, great way to miss my point. Scientists and groups of scientists disagree among themselves all the time. Picking some reports published in some journals then exclaiming "this is science as it was published in some AES papers, therefore it cannot be wrong" is laughable. Of course everything is open to criticism, whether you publish it on your personal blog or some scientific journals. Guess what, 90% of research articles are routinely wrong and quite meaningless upon deeper inspection (source: having worked in the academia; people are just as petty there as everywhere else, having PhD/Dr in their title or not).

 

[Rincewind42]

That's not a 'problem with the Harman research' though.
That research is about finding the most preferred tonal balance which is by far the most important aspects.
The beauty of the research is that it shows that not every one prefers that 'average' tonality.
35-40% of the people simply prefer a different tonality. This is what that research shows.
The thing was the goal is to find a 'target' that satisfies the majority of potential customers.
VERY VERY few headphones actually conform pretty exactly to that 'average' the vast majority deviates.
The research also was not about telling people that this target is what they have to like and all else is 'wrong'.

The whole micro- and macro-dynamics is also FR related by the way.
But indeed the research was not about resonances and distortion nor driver compression and seal issues (though it did pop up)

The Harman research is in no way invalidated nor problematic for those that prefer a different tonality or have certain wishes or find other aspects equally or even more important than the tonal balance.

The FT1 is not Harman compliant and may even be one of the reason you were not happy with it and returned it.

Yeah I get it, my problem is that it becomes this "ideal to strive for" and a "standard" to measure all headphones against.

I have lots of issues with the methods used to establish the curve, but I have better things to do than type all day. E.g., we don't know what music they listened to, what genres these people even liked, millions of other factors. Then giving untrained listeners to start moving EQ faders is like giving ketchup and sugar to kids: suddenly all food will be full of sugar and ketchup (bass and treble), after all, that tastes good to them.

Anyway, my main point is using TheCurve(tm) to make judgements about a headphones. Like you said "The thing was the goal is to find a 'target' that satisfies the majority of potential customers.", and I agree with that. But I think audio enthusiasts should strive for better standards, and ultimately, adherence to the curve is a bit meaningless.

This guy gets it. I guess it's good for weeding out horrible headphones, but 5 headphones with 90% perfect Harman curves can sound totally different.

 

[FTB]

LOL, great way to miss my point. Scientists and groups of scientists disagree among themselves all the time. Picking some reports published in some journals then exclaiming "this is science as it was published in some AES papers, therefore it cannot be wrong" is laughable. Of course everything is open to criticism, whether you publish it on your personal blog or some scientific journals. Guess what, 90% of research articles are routinely wrong and quite meaningless upon deeper inspection (source: having worked in the academia; people are just as petty there as everywhere else, having PhD/Dr in their title or not).

I like newbies on the forum trying to tell us the truth.
Man, we are a lot here on this forum liking the Harman curve but you, you have nothing to stand your point of view except sarcasm, a pathetic video saying measurements are not important (Moon audio don't have something to sell, them ?) and trying to look better intelligent than people who proven themselves.

Again, why don't you put an email and engage discussion with people who made the study if you have so much to teach us ?
Intelligent people share their intelligence instead of criticizing freely work of other people.

 

[solderdude]

Yeah I get it, my problem is that it becomes this "ideal to strive for" and a "standard" to measure all headphones against.

For Harman it was a search for which tonal balance.
Initially it was even for educating their own employees about what to make in order to increase sales.
This very large body of research then became more public.
This is a good thing as there simply isn't much deep research.

I have lots of issues with the methods used to establish the curve, but I have better things to do than type all day. E.g., we don't know what music they listened to,

We do.

what genres these people even liked, millions of other factors.

We do.

Then giving untrained listeners to start moving EQ faders is like giving ketchup and sugar to kids: suddenly all food will be full of sugar and ketchup (bass and treble), after all, that tastes good to them.

Agreed but that's what manufacturers want to know... what sells !

Anyway, my main point is using TheCurve(tm) to make judgements about a headphones. Like you said "The thing was the goal is to find a 'target' that satisfies the majority of potential customers.", and I agree with that. But I think audio enthusiasts should strive for better standards.

I believe some guys are trying hard to find that but it will only lead to yet another set of preference curves that differ here and there and who is to say if they are any more accurate ?
Tastes differ. This means tolerance bands are required (which those guys are doing). Harman research already figured out the tolerance bands.

Question... what would you publish ? tolerance bands all the way up to outliers ? Would you impose a dB limit ? What would it be based on ? ears differ too much, tastes differ, recording genre sound quality (tonality) differs.

Too many variables.

and ultimately, adherence to the curve is a bit meaningless.

It is and isn't.
It is for technical reasons so measurements are comparable to a standard and shows relative differences more easily.
It isn't when you search for something that brings personal enjoyment.

So depending on the goal you set there is value in it.

This guy gets it. I guess it's good for weeding out horrible headphones, but 5 headphones with 90% perfect Harman curves can sound totally different.

Yep he makes many valid points and throws in some nonsense too.
One should keep in mind.... they too have things they like to SELL to you (just like Harman does). It is basically an advertorial for their store.

ALL headphones sound different. Period.
Even when you EQ them to a target on a specific test fixture they will still sound (a little to substantially) different for many reasons.

Are you ever going to put that in numbers ? No of course not.
Have and are attempts being made ? Yes.
Does that add to knowledge ? Yes.
Is that relevant to understanding things about headphones ? Yes.

In the end when it comes to enjoyment all that matters is your ears and not those of others or any test fixture.
When it comes to having a reference measurements do matter.

This discussion, however, does not belong in this thread. There are other threads for that.
This thread is about the FT1.
A closed headphone with a colored sound that one may or may not prefer and can EQ if you want.
It looks nice, is reasonably well built and not very expensive.
It is the end all headphone... of course not. Will everyone like it ? Of course not. Will certain owners love it ... sure.

 

[FTB]

The guy on video talks about "burning in headphones" and "distortion of a tube amp is good"
They have so much stuff to sell they put the prices in the video...

 

[Soria Moria]

Moon Audio is a snake oil website. They sell super expensive cables they claim are better.

 

[Bernard23]

Yeah I get it, my problem is that it becomes this "ideal to strive for" and a "standard" to measure all headphones against.

I have lots of issues with the methods used to establish the curve, but I have better things to do than type all day. E.g., we don't know what music they listened to, what genres these people even liked, millions of other factors. Then giving untrained listeners to start moving EQ faders is like giving ketchup and sugar to kids: suddenly all food will be full of sugar and ketchup (bass and treble), after all, that tastes good to them.

Anyway, my main point is using TheCurve(tm) to make judgements about a headphones. Like you said "The thing was the goal is to find a 'target' that satisfies the majority of potential customers.", and I agree with that. But I think audio enthusiasts should strive for better standards, and ultimately, adherence to the curve is a bit meaningless.

This guy gets it. I guess it's good for weeding out horrible headphones, but 5 headphones with 90% perfect Harman curves can sound totally different.

It would appear you've a fundamental misunderstanding of the process of "science"; that there is a better audiophile standard (subjectively derived?) than one that attempts to set a reference or calibration curve?

 

[Deleted member 89070]

This headphone was incredibly hyped for the first few months after release, "AKG K371-killer" "new class leader". I'm glad I resist joining hype trains.

I was disappointed on my first listening session with them, to be honest. The measurements here tell us a lot, and listening was unimpressive.

 

[Reticuli]

I was disappointed on my first listening session with them, to be honest. The measurements here tell us a lot, and listening was unimpressive.

What's a better-measuring Harman curve closed headphone with that much deep bass as the FT1?

 

[FTB]

What's a better-measuring Harman curve closed headphone with that much deep bass as the FT1?

AKG K371 with real sub-bass and not bass bleeding into the mids like the FT1.

 

[Bernard23]

What's a better-measuring Harman curve closed headphone with that much deep bass as the FT1?

Yamaha HPH-MT8. Real sub bass

 

[Reticuli]

Yamaha HPH-MT8. Real sub bass

Found the AKG measurements thread, but where is the Yamaha one?

 

[Bernard23]

Found the AKG measurements thread, but where is the Yamaha one?

There isn't one in ASR, but I'm comparing the squiglink data.

 

[josiah]

These headphones reinforced why I go to audiosciencereview.com.

After some EQ, I was able to get it to sound "better"; however, there are some problems that EQ can not solve.

Examples:
Ariana Grande - No Tears Left to Cry: The into should feel like it has depth and distance. This felt small and in your head.
Weekend - Starboy: Bass distortion...nothing can fix it.
Toy Sivan - Chorus sounds more like a single voice than I'm use to.
Tio Cruz/Kylie Minogue - Higher: Voices start blending together which is something I have never had happen before...
Nerve - The Other Boys: Strings sound synthy.

What a world. I prefer $140 (now $200) gaming headset more than this...

 

[Dk33145]

These headphones reinforced why I go to audiosciencereview.com.

After some EQ, I was able to get it to sound "better"; however, there are some problems that EQ can not solve.

Examples:
Ariana Grande - No Tears Left to Cry: The into should feel like it has depth and distance. This felt small and in your head.
Weekend - Starboy: Bass distortion...nothing can fix it.
Toy Sivan - Chorus sounds more like a single voice than I'm use to.
Tio Cruz/Kylie Minogue - Higher: Voices start blending together which is something I have never had happen before...
Nerve - The Other Boys: Strings sound synthy.

What a world. I prefer $140 (now $200) gaming headset more than this...

This happens, I tried the much-hyped FT 7 and they were so bright that they hurt my ears. If I am tracking what Amir is saying across all these reviews, basically find a set of cans with low distortion and big natural soundstage and use it as your canvas. Though I do wish things like damping factor and timing could also be measured and compared.

 

[Reticuli]

There isn't one in ASR, but I'm comparing the squiglink data.

Do you own the Yamaha HPH-MT8 and if so, are you using them stock or altered with different pads and/or EQing? I need closed over ear headphones that either I don't need to EQ, or they have low-latency EQ built in.