- Thread Starter
- #21
Using that logic, why not just get a $20 truthear gate and be done with it?
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Fidelity/Detail/Resolution on reviews
- Thread starter llmercll
- Start date
FLAC of what particularly? Tonality in what devices have you "experienced"?
I did! They are fine!
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In-ears are uncomfortable to many
Tell
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Wouldn't that be the other way around, with wider dispersion the more the room contributes more with nondirect reverb which makes the sound less defined and "detailed". Maybe the very top end where our sensitivy and the abiility to define tonality lessens the extra room energy would maybe add to the "resolution" though?
This is true, but taking time to settle on the right-sized (and regularly cleaned) silicone plugs helps (and not use the hopeless memory foam types, although some will prefer them).
After two+ hours of headphones (not IEMs) though, I get very hot ears, and my specs get pushed into my temples! I use both - the headphones for more casual 'on/off' listening.
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In a way I agree, but I’m talking about an increase in general HF level in-room as a result of very wide tweeter dispersion. As long as the room isn’t overly reverberant, the reflected energy shouldn’t smear detail.
whereisbrian
Senior Member
For any FLAC file, it is possible to determine its quality in full detail.
Never saw that before, but doesn't really answer my question. What flac files are an issue for you? Where are you getting "tonality" differences and with what particularly?
- Thread Starter
- #31
I purchased a truthear gate to test what you guys are talking about. I plugged them into my Topping DX1 II, which is the same DAC/Amp I use with my Sundaras.
They don't even come close. Yes the frequency response is practically perfect and there's no distortion but the end product coming out of them simply lacks detail/fidelity/resolution. They sound like toys in comparison and don't capture the fine detail that make my Sundara's so nice to listen to.
They don't even come close. Yes the frequency response is practically perfect and there's no distortion but the end product coming out of them simply lacks detail/fidelity/resolution. They sound like toys in comparison and don't capture the fine detail that make my Sundara's so nice to listen to.
You must have much more discriminating ears than our host here. Here are what he wrote in his review.
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I don’t think Gate is good “out of the box”. This has been discussed a lot on here, but firstly you must find the right ear buds to get a good seal. Then you need some EQ to lift the bass further and depending on your taste a little boost in the 6-10KHz region. If you do the above you absolutely have reference level audio. It’s genuinely gob-smacking.
CiX
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In fact, roughly 60–80% of what we call "resolution" in a pair of headphones comes down to the linear behavior of its frequency response — that is, what the frequency response actually sounds like.
The rest is determined by the degree of bass roll-off, overall distortion, and the presence of unwanted resonances or ringing.
However, this does not mean you can simply measure a headphone's response curve, apply a corrective EQ, and expect two headphones to sound identical.
The reason is that the interaction between the driver, the enclosure, and the human ear produces several resonant features (peaks and dips) in the response, and both the frequency and magnitude of these features shift with the shape of the pinna, the geometry of the ear canal, insertion depth, and so on. Above 4kHz in particular, individual variation grows increasingly large — at the same frequency, different measurement rigs can disagree by 4–8dB or even more.
This is precisely the problem posed by HpTF (and the averaged HRTF assumptions embedded in measurement fixtures).
So if I want to verify whether the Truthear Gate can be EQ'd to approach the sound of a high-end headphone, the only real option may be to compare the differences slowly with your own ears, then calibrate using sine-sweep loudness matching,
Playing a single sine tone, sweeping it slowly across the spectrum, and correcting the loudness differences frequency by frequency.
It may sound a bit crazy, and it certainly takes some effort, but this is exactly how I EQ'd my FiiO JT7.
※This method matches perceived equal loudness rather than a physically flat response, so the result depends on the listening level used during calibration.
An alternative approach is to place a miniature measurement microphone at the ear canal entrance, measure, and then correct, like headphones.com doing — though this still cannot fully capture the individual resonances of the ear canal itself, so it remains an approximation.
The rest is determined by the degree of bass roll-off, overall distortion, and the presence of unwanted resonances or ringing.
However, this does not mean you can simply measure a headphone's response curve, apply a corrective EQ, and expect two headphones to sound identical.
The reason is that the interaction between the driver, the enclosure, and the human ear produces several resonant features (peaks and dips) in the response, and both the frequency and magnitude of these features shift with the shape of the pinna, the geometry of the ear canal, insertion depth, and so on. Above 4kHz in particular, individual variation grows increasingly large — at the same frequency, different measurement rigs can disagree by 4–8dB or even more.
This is precisely the problem posed by HpTF (and the averaged HRTF assumptions embedded in measurement fixtures).
So if I want to verify whether the Truthear Gate can be EQ'd to approach the sound of a high-end headphone, the only real option may be to compare the differences slowly with your own ears, then calibrate using sine-sweep loudness matching,
Playing a single sine tone, sweeping it slowly across the spectrum, and correcting the loudness differences frequency by frequency.
It may sound a bit crazy, and it certainly takes some effort, but this is exactly how I EQ'd my FiiO JT7.
※This method matches perceived equal loudness rather than a physically flat response, so the result depends on the listening level used during calibration.
An alternative approach is to place a miniature measurement microphone at the ear canal entrance, measure, and then correct, like headphones.com doing — though this still cannot fully capture the individual resonances of the ear canal itself, so it remains an approximation.
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MaxwellsEq
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How did you guarantee that the level at your eardrum was identical for both?
heraldo_jones
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Talisman
Major Contributor
I am a convinced objectivist, but on one thing I am in partial agreement with the original poster, I own the sundara and I also have the feeling that the music is simply somehow more "defined" or rather that it has a more defined texture, that each sound is a little more precise, more delineated than with many other headphones or speakers. Personally, it doesn't seem to me to cause a frequency response problem because I haven't been able to reproduce this type of perception with other non-magnetoplanar headphones. Obviously it's something present in the measurements, I don't know where to look or I've never been able to associate it with a parameter, but I repeat, I don't think it's just a question of frequency response
While you can measure IEMs and headphones on a "standard ear rig", that only gives you half the picture.
Physical ear shapes vary massively, and this affects what you hear.
It's like having good-rated speakers and placing them crudely in various room sizes & shapes with varying furniture - I'm sure many of us (inc. me) have tried this and know that there is a certain "horses for courses" thing going on, but possibly even worse with IEMs and headphones. And of course, if you buy expensive ones, they always sound better, for everyone else too, even if they don't.
Physical ear shapes vary massively, and this affects what you hear.
It's like having good-rated speakers and placing them crudely in various room sizes & shapes with varying furniture - I'm sure many of us (inc. me) have tried this and know that there is a certain "horses for courses" thing going on, but possibly even worse with IEMs and headphones. And of course, if you buy expensive ones, they always sound better, for everyone else too, even if they don't.
Tell
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As already said your ears and ear canal plays a big role in how the frequency response turns out, despite them maybe measuring the same. Try EQ the other headphones/IEM by ear if you can get them to have the same amount of "details" (probably by using a high shelf and turning it up a few dB). Also make sure you are playing them at the same level before even trying to do an open comparison.
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