Fermented and Cultured Food or Drink Stories

[Soandso]

It should be fun and possibly interesting to share experIences, production, experiments, anecdotes, encounters or scientific aspects with regards to fermented and/or cultured food as well as drink. Be it mundane, failures or life threatening my sense is the subject deserves it's own thread.

I'll start by mentioning that being retired a lot of my hobbies progressively became physically difficult. So I have re-started food fermentation since I can scale to where weights are comfortable and design edible in home projects.

But now a story might be a better thread starter. Over 20 years ago I built a small (4 milk cows) rural "all natural" ice cream factory in the tropical country where I held Residency. Once dished out the heat posed a melting problem for any ice cream serving. I found that Japanese Natto fermented soy beans produced an exudate which I could extract for adding to the ice cream production process as a temporary stabilizer. It took a bit of experimenting with proportions since whole finished Natto is a stinky food.

I'm recalling an additional Natto story but shall leave it for later.

 

[RickS]

I grew up with sauerkraut but rarely have it as my wife cannot stand. She won’t eat yogurt or tofu either. Does not seem to mind fermented grapes or barley though.

 

[DavidEdwinAston]

I have been making water kefir for a while. 500ml. bottles capable of containing a carbonated liquid.
However, last week the first explosion occurred. Glass and sticky liquid all over the bedroom! The wife and I got away without injury.
However, now I am making damn sure to burp the bottles daily, and keeping them downstairs, or in the fridge!

 

[Brian Hall]

I've made sauerkraut and a couple of types of beer and ale. All came out good, but it is easier to just buy it at the store. Not a hobby I enjoy enough to bother with.

 

[scrubb]

I started homebrewing in college and stuck with it while pursuing a career in audio/visual. At some point my brewing hobby took a turn for the worse and I've been a professional brewer for the last 20 years. I have an interest in (most) all things fermented. I typically grow a couple serrano or similar pepper plants every year on the deck, harvest the peppers after they turn red and ferment them into hot sauce. I'd do Sauerkraut more often but my partner doesn't like it and it's hard to make a small amount. Fermentation is a form of food preservation that I find intriguing, from social, historical, and scientific perspectives.

 

[olds1959special]

I made goat milk kefir and kombucha, but I left the scobys in the liquid of the kombucha too long and it grew vinegar worms!

 

[Keith_W]

I received this book for Christmas a few years ago: Noma Guide to Fermentation. It is a must-read if you want to ferment foods at home. There are instructions in there on how to construct a fermentation chamber or room, proper sanitary procedures, a discussion on the bacteria you want to encourage and the bacteria you want to suppress, another discussion on what the different acids produced by these bacteria taste like, etc. There is also a difference between fermentation (where the flavour/texture of food is modified by microbial action) and autolysis (where the flavour is modified by enzymatic action, and we want to suppress microbes - for e.g. garum and Asian fish sauces, some cheeses, Chinese preserved eggs, and charcuterie).

Fermentation is the key to making food interesting. Most food cultures around the world have some kind of fermentation or autolysis. Even people who think they hate fermentation (like @RickS wife who hates sauerkraut and yogurt) will happily eat other types of fermented food - bread, alcoholic drinks, coffee, chocolate, vinegar, pickles, etc.

But IMO ... Chinese fermented foods is where it is at. There is such a huge variety that even at my age, and years of cooking experience, I am still discovering new fermented products. Fermented chilli sauces and fermented tofu from regional parts of China are real eye openers. I recently had some Changsha stinky tofu ("長沙臭豆腐", literal translation - "Chang Sha smelly bean curd"). It was so offensive I could barely put it in my mouth. But once I did, it was delicious. There were so many flavours you would not expect from the smell alone.

 

[xray]

I love all fermented foods. I haven't tried stinky tofu but I'd give it a go given the opportunity. I draw the line at Hákarl however.

 

[RickS]

View attachment 479895

I received this book for Christmas a few years ago: Noma Guide to Fermentation. It is a must-read if you want to ferment foods at home. There are instructions in there on how to construct a fermentation chamber or room, proper sanitary procedures, a discussion on the bacteria you want to encourage and the bacteria you want to suppress, another discussion on what the different acids produced by these bacteria taste like, etc. There is also a difference between fermentation (where the flavour/texture of food is modified by microbial action) and autolysis (where the flavour is modified by enzymatic action, and we want to suppress microbes - for e.g. garum and Asian fish sauces, some cheeses, Chinese preserved eggs, and charcuterie).

Fermentation is the key to making food interesting. Most food cultures around the world have some kind of fermentation or autolysis. Even people who think they hate fermentation (like @RickS wife who hates sauerkraut and yogurt) will happily eat other types of fermented food - bread, alcoholic drinks, coffee, chocolate, vinegar, pickles, etc.

But IMO ... Chinese fermented foods is where it is at. There is such a huge variety that even at my age, and years of cooking experience, I am still discovering new fermented products. Fermented chilli sauces and fermented tofu from regional parts of China are real eye openers. I recently had some Changsha stinky tofu ("長沙臭豆腐", literal translation - "Chang Sha smelly bean curd"). It was so offensive I could barely put it in my mouth. But once I did, it was delicious. There were so many flavours you would not expect from the smell alone.

Yes, but is not just my wife, you likely have described most of the US population.

 

[Flaesh]

lightly fermented and cured beef:

diy in a regular refrigerator

 

[Keith_W]

I love all fermented foods. I haven't tried stinky tofu but I'd give it a go given the opportunity. I draw the line at Hákarl however.

Hakarl isn't fermented, it is cured. All the urea in the meat prevents bacteria from growing.

I did try some Hakarl, in London of all places. Someone had returned from a holiday in Iceland and bought some to disgust all his friends. I was told that it's traditionally eaten and washed down with some kind of schnapps. It does not smell so bad, it's strongly fishy. The first bite was like some kind of intensely salty chewy jelly, and a few seconds later an overwhelming taste of urine in your mouth. I debated whether to swallow it or spit it out, but all my friends were watching. So I swallowed it and washed it down with schnapps. The taste of urine became even stronger even after it was gone, so I took shot after shot of schnapps. My mouth felt like the inside of a filthy urinal for hours afterwards. And yes, they were all laughing ... until it was their turn to eat it. Not so funny now, bitches!

I have had my share of food that most people would find disgusting - I have tried surstromming, and I actually enjoy things like century eggs and durian. But those things don't affect you for hours. Once you swallow the food, the flavour and offensiveness passes within a few minutes.

Oh yes, a few years ago I had a dinner party where I made a Chinese dish - spinach with a sauce made from 3 types of eggs - fresh, salted, and century. The sauce is basically chicken stock with goji berries for a herbal sweetness and some ginger to lighten the flavour of the eggs. The eggs are diced and then added to the sauce. If you bite into small dice of century egg, you get a pleasant creaminess. If you bite into the salted egg, you get a burst of umami and salt. Then there is the slight bitterness and metallic flavour of the spinach. It might be a simple dish, but there is a lot of contrast in flavours. A friend from Canada was the unsuspecting victim. He actually enjoyed the dish until he asked "what are these jelly things". His expression changed when I told him it's century egg, then he remarked it's not as offensive as he thought it would be. Yeah, of course it isn't ... Chinese people don't eat century eggs like those Youtube videos. We know what to do with it.

 

[Flaesh]

Whole black eggs for drinking:

 

[Flaesh]

I once (a looong time ago) bought some shark meat from a local store, it was simply inedible; luckily, one old crazy female dog ate it all

 

[xray]

If Andrew Zimmern found it disgusting you know it's bad. Ammonia is not in any food group I know of.

 

[dlaloum]

It should be fun and possibly interesting to share experIences, production, experiments, anecdotes, encounters or scientific aspects with regards to fermented and/or cultured food as well as drink. Be it mundane, failures or life threatening my sense is the subject deserves it's own thread.

I'll start by mentioning that being retired a lot of my hobbies progressively became physically difficult. So I have re-started food fermentation since I can scale to where weights are comfortable and design edible in home projects.

But now a story might be a better thread starter. Over 20 years ago I built a small (4 milk cows) rural "all natural" ice cream factory in the tropical country where I held Residency. Once dished out the heat posed a melting problem for any ice cream serving. I found that Japanese Natto fermented soy beans produced an exudate which I could extract for adding to the ice cream production process as a temporary stabilizer. It took a bit of experimenting with proportions since whole finished Natto is a stinky food.

I'm recalling an additional Natto story but shall leave it for later.

I'm the sort of person that usually eats most things, happy with washed rind and blue cheeses, various forms of offal etc...

So when I went to a small local Japanese eatery and saw "Natto" on the menu, I thought I would give it a go.
The very friendly waiter, in broken english, warned me that "you no like" - which was just a challenge really!

But when the fermented soy beans arrived.... I indeed did not like!!

The two dishes that I recall distinctly "not liking" are Japanese Natto, and Chinese century eggs

 

[Keith_W]

So when I went to a small local Japanese eatery and saw "Natto" on the menu, I thought I would give it a go.
The very friendly waiter, in broken english, warned me that "you no like" - which was just a challenge really!

What's wrong with it? I don't understand why people find it offensive, or even why Japanese caution other people about it. It doesn't have a strong smell, maybe a whiff of old socks. It could be the slimy texture. But once it's in the mouth, I would say the flavour is quite subtle. I was also warned not to order it in a Japanese restaurant, so my expectations were quite high. I was disappointed that it didn't taste all that weird.

And FWIW there is a natto scene in Shogun, where they tell him "It's not for you, Anjin-san".

 

[dlaloum]

What's wrong with it? I don't understand why people find it offensive, or even why Japanese caution other people about it. It doesn't have a strong smell, maybe a whiff of old socks. It could be the slimy texture. But once it's in the mouth, I would say the flavour is quite subtle. I was also warned not to order it in a Japanese restaurant, so my expectations were quite high. I was disappointed that it didn't taste all that weird.

And FWIW there is a natto scene in Shogun, where they tell him "It's not for you, Anjin-san".

It was about 26 years ago....

To be honest I don't remember what the flavour was like! - Sometimes it is the expectation shock that can throw things off...

I remember being offered an Olive in Malaysia many years ago, and I popped it in my mouth expecting a savoury, brined, olive taste - instead it was a sweet sugary treat rendition of an Olive - and the unexpectedness of the wrong flavour expectation caused me to spit it out instantly....
But once I knew what type of "thing" it is, I was fine with it.

It's sort of like telling some poor sucker that Vegemite is similar to Nutella.... with predictable results!

 

[Soandso]

My introduction to Natto happened this way. About 25 years ago working in a "developing" country I suffered severe large intestine irregularity that recurred no matter the medical drug treatment. The USA has a microbial strain (and seed) repository that pre-911 provided freeze dried stock to non-pathogenic strains for free and I was heading stateside so going to obtain Bacillus Licheniformis as a potential remedy.

I'd been told that in North Africa during the 2nd World War the German military forces moving around there repeatedly suffered from debilitating dysentery. Their local guides never seemed afflicted and demonstrated their immediate remedy was to consume a bit of fresh camel dung. The Germans in North Africa supposedly sent some local camel dung off to Berlin where Bacillus Licheniformis was detected.

Where I visited in the USA it's Japanese population had a food market which sold refrigerated fresh Natto in very little styrofoam packets with a piece of plastic wrap atop the Natto beans portion you'd stir up into a mass enmeshed in lots of sticky white threads you created. After I ate just one such packet to my surprise the recent recurrence of colon inconvenience stopped by bed time so I continued to eat 1 portion daily until left town. I never bothered to get the government's B. Licheniformis on that trip and my relief from distress was permanent.

Natto is a variety of Bacillus subtilis that produces spores which are able to survive transit through the animal digestive tract. Apparently those spores can subsequently activate and the Natto strain multiplies inside the large intestine (for a time). The actual microbes do not pass through the intestinal wall.

 

[Crook]

Love fermented food, I eat it every day. Kefir, Kimchi and Sauerkraut variants. This one is beetroot, red cabbage, red onion and garlic. All about the reds. About a week to go, smelling good.

 

[Keith_W]

My introduction to Natto happened this way. About 25 years ago working in a "developing" country I suffered severe large intestine irregularity that recurred no matter the medical drug treatment.

Ulcerative colitis? Sometimes for Clostridium difficile infection.

I'd been told that in North Africa during the 2nd World War the German military forces moving around there repeatedly suffered from debilitating dysentery. Their local guides never seemed afflicted and demonstrated their immediate remedy was to consume a bit of fresh camel dung.

Yeah, that's known as FMT (Fecal Microbe Transplant), literally "eating shit". The idea is that your gut microbes are out of balance, so ingestion of beneficial bacteria restores proper gut flora. In the olden days they would dilute feces from a healthy donor and you drink it. But these days they process it to get rid of all the nasty stuff and just keep the bacteria.