Feeling frustrated, not sure where to go (speaker choice)

[Deleted member 12642]

So I can't believe I'm saying his but, I'm quite bored of my genelec 8030c. After having them for about two months, I've started to dislike them a bit for a few reasons.

1. They still sound a bit small to me in the low end and mid bass. I came from KH80 to a slightly larger woofer in the 8030c to see if it would help things. It certainly did but at the same time I'm still feeling like kicks don't sound right.

2. They are very nearfield oriented, to the point that moving away from the listening position means that the energy from the woofer dies off very quickly. Not a big fan of this.

3. I don't think I like being close to my speakers. I lose the big picture being so close I feel.

4. I'm feeling like hyper neutrality isn't something I really want, everything I've tried in that regard kind of all just sounds the same? To me there just doesn't seem to be a hole lot of life to the music. Even though I mix, going back to my best mixes, they were all made on seriously less than ideal monitoring setups. I've noticed now that I've gotten some better speakers like the 8030c, I've actually had to do more mix revisions for clients and I'm missing issues that are seemingly obvious on some of my other setups.

I recently went to a buddys house, I had given him a pair of old Kenwood Ls1200 3 ways with a dayton tweeter to replace to old ****** paper ones.. They had this quality to them where music just sounded large and engaging. That's what I want. So now I'm considering selling the 8030c and looking at some large woofer, wide baffle speakers with a bit of accuracy. JBL appears to have plenty of options like L100 but holy moly the price on those suckers, 4307 is affordable but can't find much about them.

Curious if anyone has any suggestion on how to get away from this 'small' sound. I've also considered building some 12" "subs" to go below the 8030c ala w371 and filter them + the 8030c.

 

[abdo123]

What you're looking for is a wide directivity speaker. Something that excites the room and 'slams'.

However the sound quality will sharply decline (even if it measures straight) if you don't have a proper listening area.

What is your budget?

 

[Deleted member 12642]

My current house is quite large with a ton of different rooms to pick from, plenty of treatments to toss around and find the best space.

My budget is likely what I would get for the 8030c along with maybe an extra $200. So likely around $1500. Active or passive isn't a concern for me. I will say my favorite speakers so far are the behringer 2030p's which have 80 degree dispersion according to the review here. I am a broken record at this point in regards to that. Philharmonitor BMR are something I had in my cart but got scared of the baffle cutout for the BMR driver. I suppose I could order cabinets but I'm sort of looking for a finished speaker. I'd like to hear some BMR's though, just not sure how to go about doing that.

 

[Slayer]

So I can't believe I'm saying his but, I'm quite bored of my genelec 8030c. After having them for about two months, I've started to dislike them a bit for a few reasons.

1. They still sound a bit small to me in the low end and mid bass. I came from KH80 to a slightly larger woofer in the 8030c to see if it would help things. It certainly did but at the same time I'm still feeling like kicks don't sound right.

2. They are very nearfield oriented, to the point that moving away from the listening position means that the energy from the woofer dies off very quickly. Not a big fan of this.

3. I don't think I like being close to my speakers. I lose the big picture being so close I feel.

4. I'm feeling like hyper neutrality isn't something I really want, everything I've tried in that regard kind of all just sounds the same? To me there just doesn't seem to be a hole lot of life to the music. Even though I mix, going back to my best mixes, they were all made on seriously less than ideal monitoring setups. I've noticed now that I've gotten some better speakers like the 8030c, I've actually had to do more mix revisions for clients and I'm missing issues that are seemingly obvious on some of my other setups.

I recently went to a buddys house, I had given him a pair of old Kenwood Ls1200 3 ways with a dayton tweeter to replace to old ****** paper ones.. They had this quality to them where music just sounded large and engaging. That's what I want. So now I'm considering selling the 8030c and looking at some large woofer, wide baffle speakers with a bit of accuracy. JBL appears to have plenty of options like L100 but holy moly the price on those suckers, 4307 is affordable but can't find much about them.

Curious if anyone has any suggestion on how to get away from this 'small' sound. I've also considered building some 12" "subs" to go below the 8030c ala w371 and filter them + the 8030c.

We discussed these speakers in another thread. JBL 4722n, definitely wont sound small and yet affordable. Sounds like what you may be looking for. I think you will be impressed by the sound quality, and you will the kick of a lifetime.
JBL 4722N 2-WAY SCREEN ARRAY WITH NETWORK PASSIVE APPLICATION – Lighting Images Technology

 

[Deleted member 12642]

Haha ok so those are a little big, they need to be practical and those are anything but. Funny enough I actually had the low end cabinets for those at one point. A guy just gave them to me, turns out he did that without discussing it with the real owner so I gladly obliged in returning them to him as I really didn't need them anyway. I've considering building some 3 ways but not finding much in the way of already finished designs aside from troels stuff which uses some hefty priced drivers.

 

[alont]

Have you tried toeing them out? Up to 40 degrees listening angle should be fine. That way, your sidewall early reflections will be more pronounced which should improve overall feeling of spaciousness.

Needless to say, a good subwoofer or two would also make a huge difference.

 

[abdo123]

I would really stay away from waveguided speakers.

my recommendation is to try the Philharmonic BMR, Erin measured it here.

I think his subjective impressions perfectly fit the bill of what you're looking for.

 

[Deleted member 12642]

Have you tried toeing them out? Up to 40 degrees listening angle should be fine. That way, your sidewall early reflections will be more pronounced which should improve overall feeling of spaciousness.

Needless to say, a good subwoofer or two would also make a huge difference.

I have played with all sorts of placements options and toe in but I'm just never satisfied.

I would really stay away from waveguided speakers.

my recommendation is to try the Philharmonic BMR, Erin measured it here.

I think his subjective impressions perfectly fit the bill of what you're looking for.

Interesting about the waveguide. Though I've always like the 2030 and 2031's, they're waveguided. I do also have some cheap old RCA speakers with a 6.5" woofer and what should be shit mylar tweeter that isn't in a waveguide, I put a dayton 2.5k xover in it and they sound far better than they have any right to. These speakers honestly have the final say on all my mixes, I can place objects in the stereo field far more easily than the 8030c and mid bass is way easier to judge.

BMR's are definitely on the list, but dangit the sb acoustics version isn't there anymore, wish it were cause it was so much cheaper.

 

[Hipper]

Are you using these speakers for mixing or listening?

Can you tell us about your listening situation - room, location of speakers and listening position, room treatment, EQ/DSP?

It's been mentioned many times on here, and perhaps you know it, but it's remarkable how much a speaker's performance can change with careful positioning, room treatment and EQ/DSP. Positioning at least is free and requires only time and a plan.

 

[DHT 845]

Magnat Transpuls 1500

 

[LightninBoy]

So I can't believe I'm saying his but, I'm quite bored of my genelec 8030c. After having them for about two months, I've started to dislike them a bit for a few reasons.

Can you show us the measurements you've taken at your listening position?

 

[daftcombo]

I'd add a sub first. Try to borrow one.

 

[Eetu]

I think your idea of building DIY "W371s" is a good one. Definitely will get rid of the 'small' sound.

I think a lot of your problems could be room related. You might be sitting in a null, or the 8030Cs are placed so that SBIR affects the kick drum freqs. Only way to know for sure is measure with a UMIK-1 or similar.

 

[Lao Lu]

Haha ok so those are a little big, they need to be practical and those are anything but. Funny enough I actually had the low end cabinets for those at one point. A guy just gave them to me, turns out he did that without discussing it with the real owner so I gladly obliged in returning them to him as I really didn't need them anyway. I've considering building some 3 ways but not finding much in the way of already finished designs aside from troels stuff which uses some hefty priced drivers.

Troels 3-way featuring the SB Acoustics drivers are very affordable, and I bet they sound wonderful....

 

[tktran303]

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/choices.htm

wise words from Troels…

Applies to buying speakers too…

 

[FrantzM]

Hi Josh!

Questions:
How big is your room?
Is it acoustically treated?
How far would you like to sit from the plane of the speakers?
How loud do you like to listen to? If not sure on that one, what kind of music do you like?
What si your budget for the final speaker system?
What are the other components in your music/movie system?

Peace

 

[amper42]

You may want to listen to the Revel F208 or the F328Be. They offer a wide powerful sound and you can sit a good distance from them.

 

[raistlin65]

They still sound a bit small to me in the low end and mid bass....They are very nearfield oriented, to the point that moving away from the listening position means that the energy from the woofer dies off very quickly.

If it is the bass that drops as you move away from the listening position, then dual subs is the solution to these problems. Dual subwoofers, when well-placed, can provide a smoother bass response through a wider area.

But you will want the means to crossover the subwoofers at a higher point than the natural roll off of the speakers, so that they can take over more of the bass.

How big is your room, including any open adjacent areas?

 

[MarkS]

You may want to listen to the Revel F208 or the F328Be

The OP's budget is $1500/pair.

At that price, I like Goldenear Triton 7's.

 

[abdo123]

Btw all the speakers made by Sigfried Linkwitz are wide directivity speakers.

The LX521.4 might be exactly the thing you’re looking for.