Feel the bass

[carewser]

Yeap - our "super" subs, linear motors, transducers and other infrasonics - do not play nice with physically connected townhomes, apartments, or even some HOAs. It's a quick way to get a HOA notice in your mailbox.

Thanks for posting those links. I read the info about the Fabric setup and watched the circa 2014 vid. Powersoft Amps told me a lot right there - a no holds barred design. That 1 floor with 450 x transducers (circa 2014) must be amazing! The raw power and # of AMPS to drive all those motors - WOW! My little infrasonic setup, mounted to the main large LVL running across the main-room floor is using 6 larger linear motors in unison and is quite effective during "The Expanse" as I'm frequently reminded - in addition to the subs. I've still got some better tuning to do with these. A recently acquired vintage Rane PE17 will be key to sending 15Hz and below to this array. If you are in an connected dwelling with neighbors, this simply is not neighborly.

View attachment 109022

Fabric's sound system plays both literally and figuratively beneath human hearing which is pretty remarkable but I still think once you rewire your house a couple of Paradigm Sub 2's could do the same thing, you'd just have to kiss your hearing goodbye and possibly your neighbors and also the power in your neighborhood so if you're like me, you'd end up deaf, alone, and in the dark

 

[dasdoing]

Which bones?

View attachment 108993

my system falls below 9Hz,
I put 9Hz and still hear it through my ears; I know cause pluging my ears with fingers will make it disapear. I didn't put it very loud cause sine waves below 21Hz are increasingly annoying (kind of wind flutterring in a car with windows opened at high speed); at higher volumes I would probably start to feel it, but my point here is that we (or I?) don't realy feel the bass below 20Hz more than we hear it

 

[richard12511]

my system falls below 9Hz,
I put 9Hz and still hear it through my ears; I know cause pluging my ears with fingers will make it disapear. I didn't put it very loud cause sine waves below 21Hz are increasingly annoying (kind of wind flutterring in a car with windows opened at high speed); at higher volumes I would probably start to feel it, but my point here is that we (or I?) don't realy feel the bass below 20Hz more than we hear it

Good ears! For me, I don't think I can hear below 10Hz, but I know I can definitely feel it. Not many songs have sub 15Hz content, but I love it when they do. I love the feeling of the wave washing over my body. Car window open on the highway is a good way to describe it . I tend to listen fairly loud at a good distance, fwiw.

 

[flyzipper]

I put 9Hz and still hear it through my ears; I know cause pluging my ears with fingers will make it disapear.

I'm sure you hear something, but it would be surprising if it was an actual 9Hz tone rather than the more likely sources:

• over-excursion of the woofer
• chuffing of ports
• environmental vibrations
• mechanical protests of a damaged voice coil (from too many prolonged hearing tests at 9Hz)

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Friend had array of Pro JBL subs in his produce warehouse. 400 ampere electrical service. Felt the chest thump from 75 feet away. I think displacement of ten separate 15 inch woofers did the trick.

 

[Senior NEET Engineer]

I rarely hear anything below 30hz in music

 

[dasdoing]

Good ears! For me, I don't think I can hear below 10Hz, but I know I can definitely feel it. Not many songs have sub 15Hz content, but I love it when they do. I love the feeling of the wave washing over my body. Car window open on the highway is a good way to describe it . I tend to listen fairly loud at a good distance, fwiw.

have you even tested it?

I'm sure you hear something, but it would be surprising if it was an actual 9Hz tone rather than the more likely sources:

• over-excursion of the woofer
• chuffing of ports
• environmental vibrations
• mechanical protests of a damaged voice coil (from too many prolonged hearing tests at 9Hz)

you are not talking to a kid here. any of those are very easy to identify/seperate from the actual tone for anybody with only a little of audio expirience.
I suggest doing the test, before judging. I for myself would be suprised if noone can hear below 20Hz. I actualy guess that this "20Hz rule" is more of a tonal thing. below 21Hz it is not realy musical, but it is this fluttering I described.
my sub has no port btw

 

[thewas]

An easy way to test if you can really hear 9 Hz or rather some other noises is to use a preferably closed and decent low distortion headphone. Mind you if 2nd, 3rd, .. harmonics get too high you will rather hear the 18, 27,.. Hz.

 

[andreasmaaan]

have you even tested it?



you are not talking to a kid here. any of those are very easy to identify/seperate from the actual tone for anybody with only a little of audio expirience.
I suggest doing the test, before judging. I for myself would be suprised if noone can hear below 20Hz. I actualy guess that this "20Hz rule" is more of a tonal thing. below 21Hz it is not realy musical, but it is this fluttering I described.
my sub has no port btw

It's very interesting. I've read of hearing down to c. 12Hz, but not 9Hz. Have you taken measurements of your system outputting a 9Hz tone at the point at which it appears to become audible?

 

[Frank Dernie]

my system falls below 9Hz,
I put 9Hz and still hear it through my ears; I know cause pluging my ears with fingers will make it disapear. I didn't put it very loud cause sine waves below 21Hz are increasingly annoying (kind of wind flutterring in a car with windows opened at high speed); at higher volumes I would probably start to feel it, but my point here is that we (or I?) don't realy feel the bass below 20Hz more than we hear it

99% guaranteed you are hearing one or more of the distortion components, probably mainly the 3rd and 4th since the 2nd is probably below audibility too IME.
High levels of harmonic distortion is common from subs.

 

[dasdoing]

the only possibility is that I am hearing 18Hz, because I can CLEARLY hear oscilations*. I am not acutaly saying here that I hear diferent, but that I don't think the 20Hz threshold is true in general. Again, I think that the thing with below 20Hz is that it is not percieved as a tone anymore, the same way a 10fps video is not percieved as a video anymore.

*I will compare 9Hz to 18Hz later

EDIT: btw, when I put those tones on in my cave and my girlfriend is in the room she asks "what is this?"

 

[andreasmaaan]

the only possibility is that I am hearing 18Hz, because I can CLEARLY hear oscilations*. I am not acutaly saying here that I hear diferent, but that I don't htink the 20Hz thershold is true in general. Again, I think that the thing with below 20Hz is that it is not percieved as a tone anymore, the same way a 10fps video is not percieved as a video anymore.

*I will compare 9Hz to 18Hz later

EDIT: btw, when I put those tones on in my cave and my girlfriend is in the room she asks "what is this?"

The easiest way to work out what's going on would be with a quick measurement, wouldn't it?

 

[dasdoing]

The easiest way to work out what's going on would be with a quick measurement, wouldn't it?

meassuring with a sine tone? can this be done in rew?

the sweep clearly shows the 9Hz

 

[Frank Dernie]

the only possibility is that I am hearing 18Hz, because I can CLEARLY hear oscilations*. I am not acutaly saying here that I hear diferent, but that I don't htink the 20Hz thershold is true in general. Again, I think that the thing with below 20Hz is that it is not percieved as a tone anymore, the same way a 10fps video is not percieved as a video anymore.

*I will compare 9Hz to 18Hz later

EDIT: btw, when I put those tones on in my cave and my girlfriend is in the room she asks "what is this?"

I also have the experience that sub bass feels like driving with one window a bit open.
The thing is that with a strong 9Hz tone, loud enough to feel, it is very likely the harmonic distortion components will be so big that they are audible. The second harmonic at 18Hz is still more feel than directly hear too IME but the 27Hz and 36 Hz distortion components would be directly audible.

 

[andreasmaaan]

meassuring with a sine tone? can this be done in rew?

the sweep clearly shows the 9HzView attachment 109853

Gotta admit, I'm not super good with REW, but I think the best way to do it would be to use the Generator and the RTA:

 

[dasdoing]

I also have the experience that sub bass feels like driving with one window a bit open.
The thing is that with a strong 9Hz tone, loud enough to feel, it is very likely the harmonic distortion components will be so big that they are audible. The second harmonic at 18Hz is still more feel than directly hear too IME but the 27Hz and 36 Hz distortion components would be directly audible.

I don't want to sound arogant, but I would instantly know that I am in that range when I hear 27Hz or 36Hz

 

[dasdoing]

Gotta admit, I'm not super good with REW, but I think the best way to do it would be to use the Generator and the RTA:

View attachment 109855

I think just recording the tone and importing it into REW as "audio data" should work, no?

 

[andreasmaaan]

I think just recording the tone and importing it into REW as "audio data" should work, no?

For sure, or even just recording it and analysing the spectrum in the recording software.

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

meassuring with a sine tone? can this be done in rew?

the sweep clearly shows the 9HzView attachment 109853

I sure hope that ain't a calibrated mic. ~ 137dB ... ouch!

 

[dasdoing]

I sure hope that ain't a calibrated mic. ~ 137dB ... ouch!

sorry, none of my graphs are SPL calibrated. I use a analog mic, so I would have to do it everytime I make new meassurements