Feedback request: desktop audio system

[notanllm]

I'm planning to upgrade my desktop audio system in my WFH office. After a bunch of reading, I've drafted a few possible approaches and components. I'm looking for feedback from more experienced people. My budget is around $1500 but somewhat flexible.

I listen to music (mostly electronic) while working via Spotify and Soundcloud, so quality varies from lossless to very lossy. Video calls are interspersed.

I've been using my current system for like 15 years. I run all computer audio out through the headphone jack to some tiny Audioengine powered speakers, which pass signal on to a HSU ported 10" sub. I use the sub crossover at its highest setting (90hz). It sounds pretty good to my undiscerning ear, but it is definitely lacking in mid-bass due to the 2.5" woofers on the Audioengines.

Requirements:

• Better sound, obviously. Emphasis on the low end for electronic music. If money, space, and eardrums were no object, I'd have a Berlin club sound system in my office. Of course I don't listen to music that loud all day, but rich, tight, punchy bass and no fatigue at moderate volume is the priority.
• Durable components.
• I want to try some kind of DSP/room correction. My office is oddly shaped, so I think this could have a big impact. Also it sounds fun and I have read this is the best bang for buck aside from speakers.
• It's not a strict requirement that all computer audio goes through the music system, but I want a seamless experience where I play and pause music from my computer (ie, not pausing a streaming app on my phone to take a call).

Here are the three possible approaches I've laid out so far. All of them upgrade the speakers to Elac DBR62. These are pretty big for desktop speakers but I read they work well for nearfield. I would mount them on clamp stands to keep desk space. I'll probably keep using my sub for now and upgrade it later if it seems like a weak point.

1. Streamer-based: based on a Wiim amp ultra, which everyone seems to rave about. But using a streamer for desktop audio is a bit of a hack. I'd need an adapter to get signal from the computer's USB out to Wiim amp optical in. Forum posts suggest this would cause lag in video calls. Total cost ~1500.
2. AVR-based: the Yamaha RN800A looks like a good, modern option with good refurb deals. Simple, but wouldn't fit on my desk. Total cost ~1700.
3. MiniDSP-based: uses a MiniDSP as a preamp with Fosi V3 monoblocks powering the speakers and REW for room correction. Total cost ~1750.

So far, MiniDSP seems like the best option to me. From what I read, it would have the best DSP software and none of the cons of other approaches.

Please share any and all feedback on approach or component selection. I'm open to anything, including totally different approaches.

 

[DanielT]

Welcome to ASR.

...Elac DBR62. These are pretty big for desktop speakers..

Active speakers are handy for desktop use. Is that something you can imagine having?
For example, these are physically smaller than Elac DBR62 but have better midbass than your current Audioengines 2.5" woofers:

Audio Smile LBM Monitor Review

This is a review, listening tests, EQ and detailed measurements of the Audio Smile Little British Monitor (LBM) Active Speaker (Monitor). It was sent to me by the company and costs £529.00 (VAT Excluded). Kit version is available for £349.00. As a woodworker, I appreciate how the baltic birch...

www.audiosciencereview.com

This is what they look like on @Mnyb 's destop:


_________
Or for example these:

Adam T5V Review (Studio Monitor)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Adam T5V Powered Speaker. It was kindly purchased new by a member and drop shipped to me. The T5V costs US $200 each. Much like the rest of Adam speakers, the T5V has a serious look to it: Back panel shows good connectivity and usual...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[notanllm]

Active speakers are handy for desktop use. Is that something you can imagine having?

Yeah, for sure. I thought about this at first, but got lost in the connectivity aspect. It seems like most monitors take balanced analog input. So I guess most desktop setups use a DAC between the computer and monitors?

What about non-pro subwoofer integration and DSP? Seems like most folks use a pro-audio sub from the same company, or no sub. Would it be wise to do something like my MiniDSP approach, but replace the Fosi V3 + Elac DBR62 with monitors?

 

[LeftCoastTim]

I've been using Neumann KH 80s on my desk for the past 5-6 years. It is on an A/B switch to switch between my docked work laptop (Macbook Pro) to my personal desktop/gaming PC.

My desk is in a corner of the room, so it needed a notch filter to take out a room mode. I used a calibrated mic and REW to do the measurements, and the built in DSP in the KH80s for the filter.

I keep thinking of adding a subwoofer, but I never got around to it. I'm happy enough with it as is.

Neumann KH80 is a great little speaker.

 

[kemmler3D]

What about non-pro subwoofer integration and DSP? Seems like most folks use a pro-audio sub from the same company, or no sub. Would it be wise to do something like my MiniDSP approach, but replace the Fosi V3 + Elac DBR62 with monitors?

I would definitely look into it.

My setup uses active monitors and 2 subs:

PC --> Topping DX5 Lite (USB) ---> Genelec 8030 (XLR) + 2x SVS SB1000 Pro (RCA)

Actually, this is simplified, I have two computers (work laptop and personal desktop) and there is a MSI monitor with KVM in between the PC and the DAC, but somehow it works fine.

I also have a WiiM Mini going into the optical input on the Topping, so I can use my desk setup as part of the whole-house multiroom streaming situation when called for.

Both computers run the DSP (Soundsource on the Mac, EQAPO on the PC). WiiM has the same settings on its own EQ.

The main drawback is that using a DAC with only one stereo output channel doesn't give you the ability to set delays per channel so time-aligning the subs is not straightforward. But in a small office setup I don't think that's a huge deal.

I personally think you can get more bang for buck in your setup if you go active. Neumann KH120 II is within reach for your budget, more or less, and should be even better than the Elacs.

You don't really need the MiniDSP but if you use it, you can do time-alignment also.

At any rate I think you will see a huge upgrade in sound quality if you go down any of the paths discussed so far. My last bit of advice would be to look for extra subs / upgraded subs secondhand. 2+ subs really helps smooth out the nulls and get enough output at the very lowest frequencies, which is how you get "tight, punchy" bass, especially for electronic stuff.

 

[DanielT]

Yeah, for sure. I thought about this at first, but got lost in the connectivity aspect. It seems like most monitors take balanced analog input. So I guess most desktop setups use a DAC between the computer and monitors?

What about non-pro subwoofer integration and DSP? Seems like most folks use a pro-audio sub from the same company, or no sub. Would it be wise to do something like my MiniDSP approach, but replace the Fosi V3 + Elac DBR62 with monitors?

Yep, if the active speaker does not have a built-in DAC, you have to convert the digital signal to an analog signal somewhere in the audio chain, before the speakers. Most people who are into hi-fi have some type of external DAC. The internal DAC in many computers, laptops, mobile phones, tablets is often not that good. There are many good external DACs that do not cost much.
I will leave the discussion about audible differences internal DAC in a computer vs external DAC aside for now.

By the way miniDSP has a built-in DAC:


miniDSP together with sub speakers (either active or passive) is good. It is in the miniDSP's functionality to split the signal (to sub and speakers). The plus is that you can do room correction, PEQ with miniDSP.
However, you need a measurement microphone together with REW. UMIK-1 is popular:


Mixing different brands of sub and speakers is no problem. The challenge lies in getting a good integration sub-speaker.

 

[notanllm]

Thanks everyone, very helpful suggestions and info so far.

@kemmler3D, would you mind explaining how you connect your monitors and subs if there is just one stereo output channel on the DAC? Are there XLR and RCA outs on the same channel?

And how does DSP and crossover work if you don't have a separate sub signal?

Thanks for your patience with these beginner questions. Lots to learn!

 

[DanielT]

Thanks everyone, very helpful suggestions and info so far.

@kemmler3D, would you mind explaining how you connect your monitors and subs if there is just one stereo output channel on the DAC?

If there is only one RCA output and you want two, you can solve it with an RCA splitter.:

 

[kemmler3D]

Are there XLR and RCA outs on the same channel?

And how does DSP and crossover work if you don't have a separate sub signal?

Yes, you've got it, so the DX5 shows one stereo output to the computer, one audio device in other words.

The DAC itself can play the output on XLR, RCA, or both, you simply control that with the remote.

So, the full range signal goes to the sub, but they have their own crossovers, so that's not a problem.

The full range signal also goes to the mains.

You set the crossover on the sub to overlap a little, but not too much with the mains. The appropriate overlap is somewhat a matter of opinion, there are pro/con tradeoffs in terms of distortion, stereo imaging, timing, flatness of the final EQ, etc.

The DSP correction is done with subs and mains active at the same time, and both are corrected together. I use MMM with pink noise to do this.

So it's really just one big stereo output, with one EQ over the whole thing. Doing it this way makes it pretty easy to integrate subs at least in terms of amplitude at the listening position.

It works really just fine IMO, but if you want to go a step further, you need a way to correct the subs and mains individually, which means you need a separate audio device / second stereo channel for the subs, and the MiniDSP would get you that.

A half-step further would be to do FIR correction L/R, but still with sub and mains getting the same correction. Might get around to that someday!

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

I was also going to suggest active speakers, but others beat me to it. Unless have more desktop real estate than you know what to do with, having a stand-alone amplifier for a desktop system is a nuisance, IMO.

Yeah, for sure. I thought about this at first, but got lost in the connectivity aspect. It seems like most monitors take balanced analog input. So I guess most desktop setups use a DAC between the computer and monitors?

Most pro-grade active monitors I’ve seen include RCA inputs, or at least unbalanced 1/4” inputs.

Your computer must have an unusually good sound card. With my two Dell laptops, using the headphone output to the active speakers gets me a lot of noise and general crud, generated by the internal soundcard.

Thus, I’ve been using a pro-audio USB interface for some years now to get a clean signal to the speakers. Currently I’m using a Black Lion Audio Revolution 2x2, a well-regarded device. As an added bonus, these devices typically have a handy front-panel volume control (I like that better than mouse-fishing for the computer’s volume) and a headphone jack with separate volume control.

What about non-pro subwoofer integration and DSP? Seems like most folks use a pro-audio sub from the same company, or no sub. Would it be wise to do something like my MiniDSP approach, but replace the Fosi V3 + Elac DBR62 with monitors?

There’s no reason you can’t use your current Hsu subwoofer. I’m using a Velodyne sub with my system. I just spit the Revolution’s outputs and sent one side to the speakers, and the other to the sub. I used REW to determine where my main speakers rolled out, and set the sub’s crossover accordingly. (Unless you listen at ear-blistering volumes, it’s no problem to run the mains full-range.) You can use a miniDSP for the sub if you want to equalize it.

The Adam speakers linked above are on my “must have” list when my current speakers bite the dust. Even aside from Amir’s glowing review, they get good reviews everywhere I’ve looked.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[notanllm]

Your computer must have an unusually good sound card. With my two Dell laptops, using the headphone output to the active speakers gets me a lot of noise and general crud, generated by the internal soundcard.

Lucky enough to get a Macbook pro from my employer. I think the sound card is pretty well regarded.

 

[EERecordist]

You might consider an older Genelec pair used, 1000 or 8000 series. The new ASCILab F6B, it is a similar price per pair. Not sure about availability and tariffs.

AsciLab F6B Bookshelf Speaker Review

This is a review, listening tests and detailed measurements of the AsciLab F6B stand mount speaker. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $835 for a pair (shipping included). In black, the F6B seems formal with a very clean design. It feels solid with sense of precision. Compared to...

www.audiosciencereview.com

You can use the ASR review index, search the spinoarma website, or reviews at Erin's Audio Corner.

For bass, you could look for a used sealed powered sub on your local audiomarts, or trial a Subpac. There are many discussions of subwoofer choices on ASR. I'm a fan of sealed servo subwoofers. Rythmik makes them. Velodyne did, but discontinued audio to focus on LIDAR.

The Wiim amp ultra would look good on the desk, has a lot of functionality and is reasonably priced.

You might consider what you can do in your room for acoustics before you EQ. Carpet with a thick jute pad, upholstered furniture, and even wall treatments or absorbing panels on stands next to the wall.

 

[DanielT]

There are many different ways to set up a desktop solution.

I listen to desktop-like solution from time to time. I don't have the speakers super close (then I might as well have headphones).
My small active XTZ Tune 4 speakers dig down pretty deep in frequency (considering their size). They measure pretty well in my listening room, I must say.
I have a slightly asymmetrical living room, which I think contributes to the fact that I don't have that many problems with room modes.
(The peak around 8 kHz is due to the mobile phone's microphone, it happens with different speakers/rooms when I use WiiM RoomFit)

Anyway. I was thinking of connecting a sub together with my Tune 4 speakers in a desktop solution. The subwoofer has a built-in 12 dB LP filter. The speakers are full range. I don't want to spend money on a miniDSP. Looking for a cheap plug and play solution, HP filter for the speakers. Like these:

Then DAC with LDAC and RCA slitter to split the signal to sub and speakers. Plus a PEQ app for $7. FR sweep with the mobile. Not optimal with it giving an indication of possible big peaks and valleys in the bass area if there will be any where I then place my sub.

 

[DanielT]

The DSP correction is done with subs and mains active at the same time, and both are corrected together. I use MMM with pink noise to do this.

Pink noise. Smart.

 

[notanllm]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your valuable input. I've learned a lot about audio over the last month!

To close the loop: I ended up getting a pair of Adam T5V monitors, a MiniDSP Flex with Dirac, and a UMIK-1. I was lucky enough to find a good deal on the MiniDSP stuff on ebay, so no shipping/tariff issues.

I also learned REW basics and took some measurements of my old and new systems. A very interesting exercise.

I noticed right away that my personal target curve has a very large bass boost. I ended up using a max of +12db. This sounds great for EDM and rap, but when listening to jazz, you can really tell which notes on the double bass are in the boosted range. I will eventually make separate presets for different kinds of music.

The midbass dip in my old system was very evident - a nice confirmation of my ears. The mids and treble also sound much better now, perhaps due to more even response from 150hz on. I can also use a proper crossover now, which makes a tremendous difference. Before any EQ or room correction, just adding a highpass filter to the mains made all kinds of music sound less muddy and boomy. Finally, I can tell when I toggle EQ that the reduced peakiness below 100hz helps a lot with boomy and uneven bass.

The issue between 1k and 2k hz in my new system is puzzling, and I'd also like a bit more midbass to get more punch from EDM. I think I will try moving things around the room next. I welcome other suggestions too.

 

[l_lama]

Do you have a chance to add subwoofer in this setup? There are really compact units with double 8" woofers to fit under the desk.

While T5V are good in frequency response comparing to some other 5" 2-way monitors, playing low frequencies is just not within it's specification.

 

[notanllm]

Do you have a chance to add subwoofer in this setup? There are really compact units with double 8" woofers to fit under the desk.

While T5V are good in frequency response comparing to some other 5" 2-way monitors, playing low frequencies is just not within it's specification.

Oh yeah I mentioned in OP but a bit buried now - I am using my trusty Hsu STF-2 with both the old and new systems. DSP made it sound a lot better.