Fatigue and tinnitus after listening my new headphones + DAC + amp

[Nicochu]

Thanks for your replies

You're just enjoying your new gear longer than you should. Take care

I think I don't, actually I am used to listen with my QC35 for 4/5h and never had any problem, I barely never listen loudly by the way.

Without any sound the headphone does nothing so cannot cause tinnitus or headaches either.

That is why i started being worried about it, the headphones were not even on my head but close, and absolutely no sound. But still when I woke up i clearly had a tinnitus on right ear where the headphones was. That is why i might feel the amp could be damaged and make some inaudible sounds. (I have the feeling i also have those problem with speakers plugged into the dac/amp, but i'm note sure ...

How loud did you listen? What were the volume and gain settings on the amplifier and DAC etc.?

I think it's not too loud, i have my computer at ~50% volume, and between 35% and 50% on the amp, 0dB setting. I easilly can speak with someone while listening to the music. I sadly can't tell you the exact volume i'm listening to, but i tried to put it low.
I saw the DAC default filter cancel noises after 22kHz or somerhing like that.

Maybe 800s in stock form are too bright for you. Try some EQ presets for different listening sessions and check if symptoms are still present. If yes, then consider getting different headphones, if possible.

I use EQ from this forum, also tried without EQ, didn't really change the problem (expect i less enjoy music hehe)

If you haven't read the discussion about the L30, make sure to do so. To make it short, do not use it if the serial number starts with anything that is below 2012. The amp can destroy both your headphones and your ears.

Mine start with 2011 ... So it could be this, i don't know why but I had the feeling it could be the amp and not dac/headphone. Thank you.

 

[shal]

begin with a long period of rest : two weeks without any music (minimum)

And after, learn to listen more soft.


I had one time this problem with my new (and big) speaker. You have no distortion, you don't hear the fatigue that coming, but the fatigue is here.

and after the problem is here and it's too late...

 

[Vini darko]

But what's the hypothesised causal relationship to tinnitus?

Loud sound you can't hear makes the ears ring. Try playing frequencies you can't hear loud then take the headphones off. (Note be careful this is a at own risk thing)

 

[Inner Space]

Stepping up to low distortion products, as you have, might be causing you to inadvertently listen much louder than you're accustomed to, because we tend to judge loudness by distortion profile. Try listening super-quiet, and night by night inch it up a little until you're comfortable. My $0.02, based on what I have heard from others.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Loud sound you can't hear makes the ears ring. Try playing frequencies you can't hear loud then take the headphones off. (Note be careful this is a at own risk thing)

I'm not so convinced TBH. All physiological tinnitus causes I know of are symptomatic of problems in the middle or inner ear, in particular the OHCs in the cochlea.

Yes, I can imagine that a high-SPL tone just outside the audio band could cause ringing (since the tympanic membrane may pass such sounds through to the middle and then inner ear, even if their frequency is slightly too high to be converted to make it to be conveyed by the cochlea. But at the kinds of frequencies of switching noise or RF interference? It seems unlikely those frequencies would ever make it through the eardrum and into the middle or inner ear in the first place.

Admittedly, I'm not an expert when it comes to these topics, so take what I say with a grain of salt...

 

[MRC01]

...
The fun part of the HD800S is that you can listen to it loud without it being perceived as loud.
...
It could be the still present 6kHz and 10kHz peaks causing tinnitus.
The excess 6kHz can (and should) be lowered. ...

You nailed it right there. These headphones have low distortion making it easy to turn up the volume louder than one realizes, leading to fatigue and (in the long term) hearing damage. Tinnitus after listening is your ears way of telling you "turn it down!" The HD800 response peak around 6 kHz accentuates this making them even more fatiguing.
Two suggestions:
1. Turn down the volume
2. Use EQ to squash the 6 kHz spike. Something like -6 dB @ 6 kHz Q=1.4 should work.

 

[Phorize]

I'm not a doctor, but a mild tinnitus sufferer and, based on what I've read and discussed with doctors, isolating the causes of a specific case of tinnitus seems to be an often impossible task.

FWIW, though, this article is the best online source I could find on the topic. In general, underlying causes of tinnitus vary widely, although noise-related hearing loss is the highest risk-factor.

From the article (on triggers):


I don't think you'll have any hope of getting to the bottom of this without consulting an ENT surgeon, I'm afraid to say.

On the more positive side, it's a very common condition that is mild in the majority of cases. Hope it improves for you though.

Alot of people have tinnitus and never really notice, some can think about nothing else. Ultimately there is no cure, but there are some very effective tinnitus retraining therapies that essentially retrain the cognition to not attribute strong emotions to the stimulus. Whilst ENTs may be aux fait from a diagnostic point of view most are unlikely to be clinically up to date re: management strategies. A well qualified clinical audiologist with some specialism in tinnitus will be though.

Obviously need diagnostics but most common cause is noise injury (Walkmans.have a lot to answer for).

Maybe Amir could incorporate safety features into reviews. Subjectively we like loud, the hearing system less so.

 

[Phorize]

Mind you I hear that Steve Gutenberg swears by this approach to ear health maintenance

 

[andreasmaaan]

The audiologist sat next to me says any frequency can cause damage provided there is a sufficient energy for it to make it through the basilar membrane. My. advice is don’t ask the internet about a health issue though!

Wow! Even in the hundreds of kHz?

 

[Phorize]

Wow! Even in the hundreds of kHz?

She just corrected me, it’s any frequency that can stimulate the basilar membrane, which means on and around the human hearing frequency range. I told you not to ask the internet I deleted the offending post to avoid misleading people.

 

[andreasmaaan]

She just corrected me, it’s any frequency that can stimulate the basilar membrane, which means on and around the human hearing frequency range. I told you not to ask the internet I deleted the offending post to avoid misleading people.

Haha, sounds more like it

 

[LTig]

Alot of people have tinnitus and never really notice, some can think about nothing else.

Yep. I may have belonged to the former group until my wife got a tinnitus. In sympathy to her I got one too.

Ultimately there is no cure, but there are some very effective tinnitus retraining therapies that essentially retrain the cognition to not attribute strong emotions to the stimulus.

I've read about a therapy where you listen to music several hours a day with the frequency region removed by DSP which triggers the tinnitus.

 

[Vini darko]

Yep. I may have belonged to the former group until my wife got a tinnitus. In sympathy to her I got one too.

I've read about a therapy where you listen to music several hours a day with the frequency region removed by DSP which triggers the tinnitus.

I find excessive alcohol consupsion is the worst trigger for mine. Music is necessary to drown it out.

 

[Zensō]

You’re most likely listening to your new headphones at a higher level.

 

[_thelaughingman]

Listen to music while having ear plugs on = no Tinnitus. oh wait that ruins music.

 

[raif71]

I'm not a doctor, but a mild tinnitus sufferer and, based on what I've read and discussed with doctors, isolating the causes of a specific case of tinnitus seems to be an often impossible task.

FWIW, though, this article is the best online source I could find on the topic. In general, underlying causes of tinnitus vary widely, although noise-related hearing loss is the highest risk-factor.

From the article (on triggers):


I don't think you'll have any hope of getting to the bottom of this without consulting an ENT surgeon, I'm afraid to say.

On the more positive side, it's a very common condition that is mild in the majority of cases. Hope it improves for you though.

If you've experienced LOTR (Lord of Tinnitus Ringing), yes do see an ENT. Sorry to the OP, hope he gets better

ENT, not groot

 

[Soniclife]

Good kit can play loud without you noticing, as others have said, so it's a good idea to get some idea of how loud your are listening. I've not tried this with 800s but with my 650 I can use my phone SPL meter with it's mic against the outside of the driver grill and get what seems to me like a surprising level of accuracy, it seems like the driver to mic is a similar distance as driver to ear drum, so I can do this whilst listening to music. It won't be calibrated accuracy, but relatively consistent from day to day.
It could also just be that you have only just noticed tinnitus for the first time, and once you notice it not noticing it is very tricky, have your tried having a day off and seeing if it goes away, then using your old phones? My guess is they will behave the same as your new ones, you have just become sensitised to noticing it, the best / only solution is to try no to think about it.
Piano music is the worst for making me notice my tinnitus, no idea why.

 

[Phorize]

Haha, sounds more like it

Listen to music while having ear plugs on = no Tinnitus. oh wait that ruins music.

Sort of, musicians ear plugs reduce spl at the ear drum but let sound through. Would be interesting to know what the measurements at the ear drum would be.

 

[Phorize]

Thinking about it, when I was young I used to go to gigs and clubs and ringing ears were standard. I deserve to have more serious tinnitus than I have.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Thinking about it, when I was young I used to go to gigs and clubs and ringing ears were standard. I deserve to have more serious tinnitus than I have.

Knock wood. I remember a time when I would think about what I'd done to my ears over the years and marvel at the fact I didn't suffer from tinnitus...