Fatigue and tinnitus after listening my new headphones + DAC + amp

[Nicochu]

Hello here, it's my first post on this forum and I wanted to start saying that I often read reviews and topics here. This place is great and thank you for this


I've always be interested in hi-fi but never made the jump before this, my speakers are "common" speakers and I have a Bose QC35 headphones for a couple of year. I never experienced problems with them even for long sessions.

I bought my first hi-fi headphones as well as my first DAC + amp something like 1 month ago to start listening with a hi-fi setup which is :
- Sennheiser HD 800S Anniversary edition (which should be exactly the same as a common HD 800S)
- Topping E30
- Topping L30

I noticed I had some light tinnitus / headcache after my first sessions of listening, which alerted me a bit. As I was continuing to listen session after session, I had less and less problem and feeling it may be just a time to adapt my ears to the headphones.
One night I slept with the headphones beside my head, it was plugged in with DAC, amp and PC turned on but without any music, I woke up having a tinnitus on the ears which was on the side of the headphones. I started being nervous about this setup potentially hurting me even without music or sound.
Beside those light tinnitus / headcache after hours the sound is good, I have pleasure listening to it and I hear no strange frequencies or anything like this.

I can't isolate the headphones because of my setup, but i tried to isolate the DAC and amp to check if I have the same results with my Bose QC35 or my speakers for example. The problem is I have to listen for hours and now I am not sure if I really have those light tinnitus / headcache or if I convince me I have them. I'm also a bit nervous about listening for hours day after day just to try, taking the risk to permananlty hurt my ears ...
I've try to analyze the frequency of my headphones with my every day microphone but I didn't find anything strange between 20Hz and 20kHz, I've not found a program which can analyze further frequency but I guess my microphone cannot anyway.

Do you think one of the 3 equipments I bought could be damaged ? If so how would you try them without taking risk to permananlty hurt me ?


Sorry for the long post, I searched a lot for my problem on Google etc. but I didn't find people having the same problem as I have ... I hope you could help me on this.

Thanks !

 

[abdo123]

You're just enjoying your new gear longer than you should. Take care

 

[Cosmic_Error]

You're just enjoying your new gear longer than you should. Take care

Gotta say I disagree with you I listen to music nearly constantly and I never have fatigue issues and I rarely have tinnitus which I attribute to unrelated hearing damage. You might be listening too loud or the headphones might be a bit too tight.

 

[Moonhead]

Well you could have a mild tinnitus like I have, comes slowly when you get older, try listening at lower volumes and see if that helps.
If I had a night where I hardly slept, my tinnitus can be so cumbersome that I can’t listen to headphones at all.

 

[solderdude]

Do you think one of the 3 equipments I bought could be damaged ? If so how would you try them without taking risk to permananlty hurt me ?

Tinnitus can be caused by many things/reasons.

The fun part of the HD800S is that you can listen to it loud without it being perceived as loud.
This could set of tinnitus after a longer exposure.
Listen at a lower level instead and turn up the lows a bit.
It could be the still present 6kHz and 10kHz peaks causing tinnitus.
The excess 6kHz can (and should) be lowered. The 10kHz may not be present with everyone so may or may not be a problem.

Without any sound the headphone does nothing so cannot cause tinnitus or headaches either.

Headaches can be caused by clamping force but there is little chance of that with the HD800S.
Of course the clamping force may be low but because the pads are kind of big they put pressure on other parts of the skull than other headphones do.

 

[Vini darko]

This could be ultrasonic noise. You can't hear it but if it's loud it cause damage.
Edit most likely cuprit is the dac in this case.

 

[andreasmaaan]

I'm not a doctor, but a mild tinnitus sufferer and, based on what I've read and discussed with doctors, isolating the causes of a specific case of tinnitus seems to be an often impossible task.

FWIW, though, this article is the best online source I could find on the topic. In general, underlying causes of tinnitus vary widely, although noise-related hearing loss is the highest risk-factor.

From the article (on triggers):

Small temporary changes in the outer hair cells (OHCs) following noise exposure can trigger the emergence of tinnitus by increasing the gain of the central auditory system.8 In general, tinnitus represents a threshold phenomenon for which any one factor, such as chronic progressive hearing loss, is insufficient to elicit its emergence-two or more trigger factors (i.e., psychosocial stress, noise exposure, and somatic factors) can act synergistically to produce symptomatic tinnitus.15 About 75% of new cases are related to emotional stress as the trigger factor rather than to precipitants involving cochlear lesions.8

I don't think you'll have any hope of getting to the bottom of this without consulting an ENT surgeon, I'm afraid to say.

On the more positive side, it's a very common condition that is mild in the majority of cases. Hope it improves for you though.

 

[Blake Klondike]

I have been having the same symptoms-- This time of year my doctor told me it can be caused by sinus issues, or even stress.

 

[abdo123]

Gotta say I disagree with you I listen to music nearly constantly and I never have fatigue issues and I rarely have tinnitus which I attribute to unrelated hearing damage. You might be listening too loud or the headphones might be a bit too tight.

Well good for you Chuck Noris, the rest of us mortals get tired after an hour or two.

 

[Thalis]

I have been a coffee addict for years and now with the lack of exercise due to the current pandemic I have had tinnitus for a few months now . Strangely having headphones on for hours did not add to it or otherwise. But I rarely listen at very high levels.

 

[Cosmic_Error]

Well good for you Chuck Noris, the rest of us mortals get tired after an hour or two.

I'm not bragging I'm simply saying that the culprit likely isn't listening too much. I'm not attacking you.

 

[JIW]

How loud did you listen? What were the volume and gain settings on the amplifier and DAC etc.?

According to Amir's measurements, setting everything before the amplifier to full volume, using the -9 dB gain setting on the amplifier should give about 105 dB SPL peaks for 0 dBFS peaks at full volume. Average level would thus likely be around 90-95 dB for pop and rock music, while for more dynamic music average levels could be below 80 dB such as for big orchestral works.

I tend to listen to my HD600 at average levels between 70-80 dB depending on the music and turn the volume up or down depending on how dynamic the music is, e.g. for big orchestral works peak SPL is above 100 dB but average SPL is only around 75 dB, while for metal peak SPL is between 90 and 95 dB, while average SPL is around 80 dB.

 

[highpurityusbcable]

Maybe 800s in stock form are too bright for you. Try some EQ presets for different listening sessions and check if symptoms are still present. If yes, then consider getting different headphones, if possible.

 

[daftcombo]

This could be ultrasonic noise. You can't hear it but if it's loud it cause damage.
Edit most likely cuprit is the dac in this case.

How?

 

[Sombreuil]

If you haven't read the discussion about the L30, make sure to do so. To make it short, do not use it if the serial number starts with anything that is below 2012. The amp can destroy both your headphones and your ears.

 

[_thelaughingman]

I had a similar case of tinnitus after switching over to the Topping stack with my Grado's, but once I EQ'd the Grado's the tinnitus gradually disappeared. Alas I ended switching over to a new amp later and haven't had tinnitus, so can't attribute that solely to a stack.

 

[Jimbob54]

Make a conscious effort to listen quieter. And take breaks.

Too easy with good gear to have the volume kranked too high for too long. Start further down the dial and end further down too.

A test- have a session, get as loud as normal. Pause, walk away for 20 minutes somewhere quiet. Come back, hit play on the volume you were at before stopping.

 

[Vini darko]

How?

Oscillation with op amps. Switching noise bleeding into audio circuts. Rf interference. Are the usual suspects.

 

[Vini darko]

Make a conscious effort to listen quieter. And take breaks.

Too easy with good gear to have the volume kranked too high for too long. Start further down the dial and end further down too.

A test- have a session, get as loud as normal. Pause, walk away for 20 minutes somewhere quiet. Come back, hit play on the volume you were at before stopping.

Good advice. I often go for a smoke or bog break and come back and "sheeeze thats loud" It's easy to get carried away with volume without really noticing.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Oscillation with op amps. Switching noise bleeding into audio circuts. Rf interference. Are the usual suspects.

But what's the hypothesised causal relationship to tinnitus?