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Fan-less silent PC

Rebuilding my fanless home server in the Akasa Maxvell Pro case to replace my smaller one due to running out of disk space:

Current fanless home server, NUC board (NUC7PJYHN2) in an Akasa Newton JC case with a Intel J5005 CPU and space for 1 ssd:

IMG_5717.jpeg


Future fanless home server, Asrock Fatal1ty B450 Gaming-ITX/ac Mini ITX with a AMD Ryzen 3 4300G CPU with space for 2 (maybe 4) ssds and 1 m.2 slot (nvme or sata):

IMG_5716.jpeg


I've also tested the Maxwell Pro case with a Ryzen 5 5600G and Ryzen 7 5700G and it can handle both on full load as long as PPT is set at 65W or below - 54W being the magic number in regard to overall heat buildup.
 
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Reckon a good policy with USB ports is to leave a short cable semi permanently connected to the port and swap devices via the cable not the port itself to prevent wear and tear, and possible later failure. Or just use a USB hub instead.
 
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I just built 2 of mini pcs for my wife's business, they will be used by receptionists to check people in and out, and other related tasks. They aren't fan-less, but for all intensive purposes they are most of the time.
  • Asus Nuc 13 pro barebones (Core i3-1315U) - $310
  • SAMSUNG 990 EVO Plus SSD 1TB - $80
  • Kingston FURY Impact 32GB (2x16GB) 3200MT/s DDR4 CL20 - $60
  • Asus 24" 1080p 100hz eyecare monitor (VZ24EHF) - $92
  • Amazon basics rechargeable wireless keyboard and mouse combo - $30
For the average consumer who doesn't do anything but surf the web it's got more than enough power. If someone needs more power, they can upgrade to the i5 (+$100), or the i7 (+$230). If you go with the tall version you can add in a 2.5" hdd or ssd.
 
DLS79 said:
I just built 2 of mini pcs for my wife's business, they will be used by receptionists to check people in and out, and other related tasks. They aren't fan-less, but for all intensive purposes they are most of the time.
  • Asus Nuc 13 pro barebones (Core i3-1315U) - $310
  • SAMSUNG 990 EVO Plus SSD 1TB - $80
  • Kingston FURY Impact 32GB (2x16GB) 3200MT/s DDR4 CL20 - $60
  • Asus 24" 1080p 100hz eyecare monitor (VZ24EHF) - $92
  • Amazon basics rechargeable wireless keyboard and mouse combo - $30
For the average consumer who doesn't do anything but surf the web it's got more than enough power. If someone needs more power, they can upgrade to the i5 (+$100), or the i7 (+$230). If you go with the tall version you can add in a 2.5" hdd or ssd.
Click to expand...

I see the NUC 15 Pro was announced recently... https://liliputing.com/asus-launches-nuc-15-pro-series-mini-pcs-with-intel-arrow-lake/

Although Asus's AMD equivalent may be a better buy for some (e.g. more storage options with 2x M.s 2280 NVMe slots) : https://liliputing.com/asus-expertc...en-ai-7-350-dual-2-5-gbe-ethernet-and-wifi-7/
 
Berwhale said:
Although Asus's AMD equivalent may be a better buy for some (e.g. more storage options with 2x M.s 2280 NVMe slots) : https://liliputing.com/asus-expertc...en-ai-7-350-dual-2-5-gbe-ethernet-and-wifi-7/
Click to expand...

Yea for some reason for the Intel units go with a 2280, and a 2242. Even that is starting to be unnecessary for the average consumer, as you can buy 8TB 2280s now.


In my mind the biggest thing is people need to do is figure out what they really want/need and then ensure they are properly educated on what's available. For example this is what my personal machine lives in (I have drastically different needs to most people).
 
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DLS79 said:
In my mind the biggest thing is people need to do is figure out what they really want/need and then ensure they are properly educated on what's available. For example this is what my personal machine lives in (I have drastically different needs to most people).
Click to expand...

For sure, if I didn't want* a dedicated graphics card, then i'd already be using a NUC or something similar as my main PC. I downsized from ATX to micro ATX well over a decade ago, but I never went down to mini-ITX because it required too many compromises on the GFX front. I have a nice small (and quiet) Fractal Design Pop Mini Silent case that suits my need perfectly well these days (Ryzen 9 7900, Radeon RX 7800 XT, 2x PCI 4.0 NVMe drives, etc.)

*I don't play games much these days, but it's nice to have the option and also play around with some LLMs.
 
Berwhale said:
For sure, if I didn't want* a dedicated graphics card, then i'd already be using a NUC or something similar as my main PC. I downsized from ATX to micro ATX well over a decade ago, but I never went down to mini-ITX because it required too many compromises on the GFX front. I have a nice small (and quiet) Fractal Design Pop Mini Silent case that suits my need perfectly well these days (Ryzen 9 7900, Radeon RX 7800 XT, 2x PCI 4.0 NVMe drives, etc.)

*I don't play games much these days, but it's nice to have the option and also play around with some LLMs.
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I noice the BeeLink has slots for two 4tb SSDs. And fanless. That’s close to my ideal computer.
 
charlielaub said:
I think that the "right" approach depends on what you envision the future use case to be for your computer and how long you really think you need to keep it around. My personal opinion is that computers are now "cheap consumables". This does not mean they are "crap", but rather are commodity items and not super special electronics. I feel the same way about DACs, for some comparison to the audio world... Computing power evolved rapidly, and after 5-6 years today's systems will already be getting slow even if you buy a "fast one" now. For that reason my personal approach is to get a middle tier system that will last about 4 to 5 years and does not cost too much. This period of time is not so long that components will need to be replaced. Instead after 4-5 years you again buy a middle tier system. In this way you immediately get a boost in performance in CPU and GPU and everything about the system is new again. This does require migration of programs and data, but to me that is not so terrible and flushing out all these old apps and programs that I no longer use is a great exercise to do every few years. On top of that, you can still keep the old system around in case you need that one obscure program that is no longer available, etc. For example I had for about 8 years an old Win10 mini tower system in the closet so that I could fire up an old DOS program.

Anyway, my perspective is certainly different from others who are posting in this thread. It may or may not suit you. I just don't personally see the merit in planning for and buying an expensive computer system that may last a long time but will just be very much behind the times for the last half of its lifetime.
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I disagree here in the sense that computers are cheap consumables. Today computers last longer than they ever did before because the rate of innovation has slowed down massively. Essentially there are only new large technological breakthroughs every seven to ten years and even that doesn't totally obsolete the old systems. His system today is actually totally fine for everything he does.
The only limitation is actually just Microsoft's arbitrary one with Windows 11 and his desire to move to Windows 11, despite the fact that most people are not doing so. He can also switch his computer to Linux and he would have no problems for the foreseeable future.

My HTPC was using a CPU from seven years ago up until very recently and it was still completely capable of playing modern games in 4K. The CPU that I took out is still not slow and in everyday tasks everything is basically instantaneous. That CPU is a Ryzen 7 1700x... However I have a mini PC with a Ryzen v1505b (Embedded low power 2500U) and even that pc is definitely "fast" even with big web pages. It's faster than the new N100/N97/N200 systems still...
So if he bought something with a Zen4 or Zen5 today, it would still be quite fast even after 10 years... Unless we have some massive technological shift with lithography or materials (such as graphene transistors).

When we look at Zen2 which came out in 2019 as still being in the top tiers of speed when we look at general processing... It's safe to say computer advancements have slowed down quite a bit on the CPU side. RAM is also in the same boat where it has roughly doubled in a decade, but not really more than that. My budget workstation in 2013 had 16GB of ram with a max of 32GB on DDR3, DDR4 has been around for a decade this year and it's had 64GB max on normal systems and 128GB on higher end. 16GB is still the norm for ram even 7 years later.
Graphics cards have advanced by around 3x performance in the last 8 years, but this is only true at the highest end with the biggest price. Midrange GPUs have barely doubled in performance in 8 years. Meaning that 8 year old GPUs can still play new games just with lower fps.

As far as cases and fans and coolers.... They have just become more plentiful. My Threadripper workstation is running a case from 12Y ago with atleast 4 fans from 9y ago and a PSU from 8Y ago. My gaming machine is using a cooler from 12Y ago with a motherboard from 7y ago and 4y old ram (had 7y old ram, but I got a deal on an upgrade to 32GB at higher speeds).
 
i'm intrigued to know how many windows users plan to keep using windows 10 after october this year?
what about security?
i know nothing about all this
 
Oldson said:
i'm intrigued to know how many windows users plan to keep using windows 10 after october this year?
what about security?
i know nothing about all this
Click to expand...
This subject is prime for it's own dedicated thread. :D Make a new thread?
 
Oldson said:
i'm intrigued to know how many windows users plan to keep using windows 10 after october this year?
what about security?
i know nothing about all this
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If you are active on the internet and do your banking by computer, you will eventually need security updates. Particularly if you do email on the computer.

If your pc is a local NAS, probably not.

But there are, and will be, third party antivirus and security programs.
 
Petrushka said:
If you are active on the internet and do your banking by computer, you will eventually need security updates. Particularly if you do email on the computer.

If your pc is a local NAS, probably not.

But there are, and will be, third party antivirus and security programs.
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have, as suggested, started a new thread for this subject.
i guess i have derailed this thread enough already ;)
 
Oldson said:
i'm intrigued to know how many windows users plan to keep using windows 10 after october this year?
what about security?
i know nothing about all this
Click to expand...
Well, if you look at the STEAM survey, more than 50% of all STEAM users have not upgraded to Windows 11, and a recent poll suggests that of that 50%, 90% don't consider to upgrade to Windows 11 in the next two to three years. After all, Windows 11 is an absolute dumpster fire with tons of inconsistencies, plenty of instability, lots of logging and data usurping of its users.
I actually do development for Windows, softwares, and I do not plan to switch my machines to Windows 11. I will have to build something that uses Windows 11 specifically for testing for the future. But right now I use virtual machines for testing my software on Windows 11 for the customers that wish to use it.

I actually need to learn Linux development because more of my customers are considering switching to Linux and are asking me about moving my software over to Linux.
This is why I built an ASrock desk mini with Linux so that I have a small Linux workstation with which to tinker around with things and start to do some development on Linux. It's also easier for web development purposes as when I did full-time web dev I used Linux.
As far as getting exploited on Windows 10 past the time that Windows doesn't provide updates, I don't really think it will be a problem. Personally, my workstation uses a version of Windows from four years ago with all updates disabled, and there has never been any problem with infection.
I personally only install security patches that I wish at the time that I wish to install them, but Windows Update has been disabled ever since it causes crashes and reboots my workstation without my permission, costing me work.

However, Microsoft is supporting Windows 10 through its long-term support channel through 2032 and those patches will be available through the web and will trickle down to normal versions. However, if you do some Googling, there are independent update websites that download the updates direct from Microsoft and provide the links to everyone. (normally The links on their site actually download direct from Microsoft servers. So you don't have to worry about files being tainted or played with).
Therefore, you would be able to provide your system with updates through those websites all the way through 2032 if it is important to you.
 
Please can you provide a link or description of the independent update websites that you are referring to?
Thanks.
 
I have weaned myself off windows and now use Linux for my day to PC usage. It's not perfect, but things run pretty smooth. My one issue was my CD ripper. I wanted to continue to use dbPoweramp.

I tried WINE, but quickly gave up on it. I also tried VirtualBox. VirtualBox looked promising, but then I saw a tiny GMKTec N97 NUC with a WIN 11 Pro licence on Amazon. The price was about the same as the official price of a Win 11 Pro licence. Yes, I know there plenty of ways to get a cheaper OEM licence, but it was simpler to buy the NUC.
 
Jimster480 said:
Well, if you look at the STEAM survey, more than 50% of all STEAM users have not upgraded to Windows 11, and a recent poll suggests that of that 50%, 90% don't consider to upgrade to Windows 11 in the next two to three years. After all, Windows 11 is an absolute dumpster fire with tons of inconsistencies, plenty of instability, lots of logging and data usurping of its users.
I actually do development for Windows, softwares, and I do not plan to switch my machines to Windows 11. I will have to build something that uses Windows 11 specifically for testing for the future. But right now I use virtual machines for testing my software on Windows 11 for the customers that wish to use it.

I actually need to learn Linux development because more of my customers are considering switching to Linux and are asking me about moving my software over to Linux.
This is why I built an ASrock desk mini with Linux so that I have a small Linux workstation with which to tinker around with things and start to do some development on Linux. It's also easier for web development purposes as when I did full-time web dev I used Linux.
As far as getting exploited on Windows 10 past the time that Windows doesn't provide updates, I don't really think it will be a problem. Personally, my workstation uses a version of Windows from four years ago with all updates disabled, and there has never been any problem with infection.
I personally only install security patches that I wish at the time that I wish to install them, but Windows Update has been disabled ever since it causes crashes and reboots my workstation without my permission, costing me work.

However, Microsoft is supporting Windows 10 through its long-term support channel through 2032 and those patches will be available through the web and will trickle down to normal versions. However, if you do some Googling, there are independent update websites that download the updates direct from Microsoft and provide the links to everyone. (normally The links on their site actually download direct from Microsoft servers. So you don't have to worry about files being tainted or played with).
Therefore, you would be able to provide your system with updates through those websites all the way through 2032 if it is important to you.
Click to expand...

I think these sort of sentiments are a bit overblown but I also feel sorry that you have to do Windows development! Windows 11 is not much worse an OS than all of the previous Windows versions, which all had their own faults. The only thing that has really grown worse IMO is their attempt to integrate all sorts of crap into the GUI and OS that they feel will make the "experience" richer. But to do that, they need to gather data about your and your habits and this is borderline spying, by the F-ing operating system! And OneDrive is evil. But hey, I still use Windows 11 everyday for most stuff. It is only when I want to something audio related that I exclusively use Linux (Ubuntu) on cheap, low-power mini-PCs because that is all the computing horsepower that is required.

I tried a VM running Windows once and it was IMHO terrible and only one core is dedicated to the VM so bye-bye fast performance. It's not worth the time to setup and tune. OTOH I often do work in Linux under WSL2 when I want to create or modify some tools and then I deploy them on one of my Ubuntu machines in my audio network.
 
Personally I find both Windows 10 and 11 faultless for audio on my fanless MiniPCs. Even whilst playing DSD and running DRC, DSP.
Two of them only have 4GB RAM too. Personally I don't think that you should need much in the way of computing resources for audio.
 
Jimster480 said:
Well, if you look at the STEAM survey, more than 50% of all STEAM users have not upgraded to Windows 11, and a recent poll suggests that of that 50%, 90% don't consider to upgrade to Windows 11 in the next two to three years. After all, Windows 11 is an absolute dumpster fire with tons of inconsistencies, plenty of instability, lots of logging and data usurping of its users.
I actually do development for Windows, softwares, and I do not plan to switch my machines to Windows 11. I will have to build something that uses Windows 11 specifically for testing for the future. But right now I use virtual machines for testing my software on Windows 11 for the customers that wish to use it.

I actually need to learn Linux development because more of my customers are considering switching to Linux and are asking me about moving my software over to Linux.
This is why I built an ASrock desk mini with Linux so that I have a small Linux workstation with which to tinker around with things and start to do some development on Linux. It's also easier for web development purposes as when I did full-time web dev I used Linux.
As far as getting exploited on Windows 10 past the time that Windows doesn't provide updates, I don't really think it will be a problem. Personally, my workstation uses a version of Windows from four years ago with all updates disabled, and there has never been any problem with infection.
I personally only install security patches that I wish at the time that I wish to install them, but Windows Update has been disabled ever since it causes crashes and reboots my workstation without my permission, costing me work.

However, Microsoft is supporting Windows 10 through its long-term support channel through 2032 and those patches will be available through the web and will trickle down to normal versions. However, if you do some Googling, there are independent update websites that download the updates direct from Microsoft and provide the links to everyone. (normally The links on their site actually download direct from Microsoft servers. So you don't have to worry about files being tainted or played with).
Therefore, you would be able to provide your system with updates through those websites all the way through 2032 if it is important to you.
Click to expand...
this is indeed very interesting.
the "independent update sites" you refer to , how do i know if they are safe?
 
Oldson said:
this is indeed very interesting.
the "independent update sites" you refer to , how do i know if they are safe?
Click to expand...
As I mentioned before, the websites basically link directly from Microsoft. They use software and mechanisms to prompt the Microsoft servers for the download files, or they just index them, and you can click and download straight from Microsoft.
 
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