Extreme Snake Oil

[RexrothPigeon]

Why do you care?

I mean, it's a free country.

I actually bought some fancy looking AC cables for my preamp and amps because I like how they look. I think I paid like 55 bucks per eight foot cable. Mind you, I got a box full of "normal" power cables, which actually cost about 15 bucks per an eight footer nowadays - the 15A variety...

Do them fancy cables sound better? I don't really care. I just like how they look and they do have nicely terminated ends.

I also have some nice silk ties. And a couple of very nice suits. Sometimes you just buy things because you like how they look...

There are people for whom a $150K cable is peanuts.... It is a free country, let them enjoy life and don't try to tell them how to spend their money.

Relax.

Let's concentrate on why it is that a bit of negative second order harmonic distortion, aka "sugar", makes a stereo soundstage sound more realistic. Let's realize that we really don't know what to measure because we really don't have an accurate physical model of what makes audio reproduction realistic.

Look!

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/650283376-tice-clock/

I really should offer 100 bucks... just for kicks. I mean, it will be for sure a funny item to show off to my audiophile friends.... they all know about this thing... we all believe it's snake oil, but, for 100 bucks, why not? Own a bit of Audio History....

This can go on all day:
Person 1: cares about something
Person 2: why do you care about that
Person 3: why do you care about what person 1 cares about
Person 4: [infinite recursion]

 

[AaronJ]

Why do you care?

I mean, it's a free country.

I actually bought some fancy looking AC cables for my preamp and amps because I like how they look. I think I paid like 55 bucks per eight foot cable. Mind you, I got a box full of "normal" power cables, which actually cost about 15 bucks per an eight footer nowadays - the 15A variety...

Do them fancy cables sound better? I don't really care. I just like how they look and they do have nicely terminated ends.

I also have some nice silk ties. And a couple of very nice suits. Sometimes you just buy things because you like how they look...

There are people for whom a $150K cable is peanuts.... It is a free country, let them enjoy life and don't try to tell them how to spend their money.

Relax.

Let's concentrate on why it is that a bit of negative second order harmonic distortion, aka "sugar", makes a stereo soundstage sound more realistic. Let's realize that we really don't know what to measure because we really don't have an accurate physical model of what makes audio reproduction realistic.

Look!

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/650283376-tice-clock/

I really should offer 100 bucks... just for kicks. I mean, it will be for sure a funny item to show off to my audiophile friends.... they all know about this thing... we all believe it's snake oil, but, for 100 bucks, why not? Own a bit of Audio History....

It’s because shilling people out of huge sums of money on Veblen goods is a blight on society. Everyone should care. If people with this sort of money don’t know how to spot a con they deserve an education for the benefit of all. That is one of the main objectives of ASR. They’re not even paying for a service to support a business, just giving money away to the undeserving. People need to be educated on how to spot cons just like they need education on how to spot phishing emails.

To your point about it being a free country, people get to spend money free from prosecution. There is no protection against shaming.

 

[Mnyb]

It’s because shilling people out of huge sums of money on Veblen goods is a blight on society. Everyone should care. If people with this sort of money don’t know how to spot a con they deserve an education for the benefit of all. That is one of the main objectives of ASR. They’re not even paying for a service to support a business, just giving money away to the undeserving. People need to be educated on how to spot cons just like they need education on how to spot phishing emails.

Its not even veblen gods is sold as actualy provide meaningful sound quality improvements . Hence a scam .

I agree one should not let scammers do thier business as a general principle regardless who thye scam

 

[RetroStereo]

Veblen goods are pretty much defined as merchandise perceived to be in the conspicuous consumption category. They may or may not be overpriced. Examples are Rolls Royce and Bugatti (automobiles), Patek, Audemars and Vacheron (watches), Dom Perignon and Cristal (champagne) and Johnny Walker Blue Label (Scotch - I'd rather have Talisker). Are there better or more practical choices for less - sometimes, a lot less - money? Yes, often. It pretty much depends on personal taste and the depths of ones wallet or credit card. American Express Black, anyone?

But are they snake oil or scams? No. I have no problem at all with high-priced luxury goods. My problem is with goods that PRETEND to be that which they are not. And I think their purveyors should be prosecuted for fraud.

Synergistic Research SRX XL and IsoTek EVO3 Optimum 2M look out! If I'm ever appointed head of the Federal Trade Commission (a less than zero chance), I'm coming for you!

 

[Johnkeizer]

those brands and goods exist and survive because a lot of people with too much, often unearned, money want to show off how rich they are.
How big is your amp? Mine is twice as big.

 

[PristineSound]

Why do you care?

I mean, it's a free country.

I actually bought some fancy looking AC cables for my preamp and amps because I like how they look. I think I paid like 55 bucks per eight foot cable. Mind you, I got a box full of "normal" power cables, which actually cost about 15 bucks per an eight footer nowadays - the 15A variety...

Do them fancy cables sound better? I don't really care. I just like how they look and they do have nicely terminated ends.

I also have some nice silk ties. And a couple of very nice suits. Sometimes you just buy things because you like how they look...

There are people for whom a $150K cable is peanuts.... It is a free country, let them enjoy life and don't try to tell them how to spend their money.

Relax.

Let's concentrate on why it is that a bit of negative second order harmonic distortion, aka "sugar", makes a stereo soundstage sound more realistic. Let's realize that we really don't know what to measure because we really don't have an accurate physical model of what makes audio reproduction realistic.

Look!

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/650283376-tice-clock/

I really should offer 100 bucks... just for kicks. I mean, it will be for sure a funny item to show off to my audiophile friends.... they all know about this thing... we all believe it's snake oil, but, for 100 bucks, why not? Own a bit of Audio History....

I don't care one bit what other idiots do with their money, but this thread is almost a banter for us to talk smack for fun, which is what I am doing.

I have no idea what this TICE clock is until I looked it up . . .I felt off of my chair after looking it up.

 

[tony_ee]

I don't care one bit what other idiots do with their money, but this thread is almost a banter for us to talk smack for fun, which is what I am doing.

I have no idea what this TICE clock is until I looked it up . . .I felt off of my chair after looking it up.

(1) Are you calling me an idiot?

(2) If you didn't know what the Tice Clock was... then your history of snake oil is not very deep... Here, learn about even more esoteric tweaks...

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The Magic of Mpingo

BTW- in '94 a dealer demostrated the Mpingo discs on a pair of MBL Radialstrahlers. Us three could indeed hear a difference of the sound... slight, but different. It sounded like the removal of some resonances... but, BUT, was the difference worth it? I'm sure a $15 clamp from HD could have done something similar.

(3) The guy selling the Tice Clock is sticking to $150 plus $50 shipping. I won't pay over $80, including shipping. So, he'll keep it.

Listening #85 | Stereophile.com

We murder to dissect.—William Wordsworth Tice Clock: Are there two more loaded words in all of hi-fi?

www.stereophile.com

 

[PristineSound]

(1) Are you calling me an idiot?

Why do you think that? Because you spent $50 on some power cables because you wanted some jewelries knowing it does nothing. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, even though I wouldn't do it. I have however purchased $130 speakers cables from from Blue Jeans and I know even with the infinitesimally small better measurements, I won't hear any difference. But I brought it for the construction using ultra sonic welded locking banana, definitely not for the jewelry as that Blue Jeans doesn't look that good.

I won't define what I would called an idiot as not to insult anyone in case they are on ASR out of respect for forum decorum.

(2) If you didn't know what the Tice Clock was... then your history of snake oil is not very deep...

I won't dispute that, and I'll call myself fortunate for not being exposed to that level of snake oil.

 

[tony_ee]

OK, good.... I guess I won't tell you about my speaker cables then....

And I did freeze the AC cords... ( just kidding ).

I also should note that two of my preamps have the teflon cap upgrades... they do change the sound significantly... I like how they sound. Mostly I paid for the upgrade because I wanted to own the preamps as the designer thought they sound best. And, having had them with and without, I noted a difference that was, to me, worthwhile.

Oh, speaker cables... well... yes, you want a robust manufacture... and hopefully you can also work a deal on them. Eons ago I got a good deal on Audioquest and MIT cables, which, after 30+ years, are still going strong and reliable.

I also ought to note that in such things, the price is often negotiable. In the case of my preamps, I sent them in for "maintenance"... as things get old they often need some looking after. In my case, the caps were getting old and I had some issues with noise in the pots, etc... so I worked out an all inclusive service cost. Meaning that I can sell the preamps with no loss.

The older you get, the more exposed you are to things and the more you discern between crazy ideas and flat out snake oil.

My favorites are the stuff from Peter Belt... Specially the part when he made a phone call and makes your system sound better. That's genius.

Peter Belt, 1930-2017 | Stereophile.com

On March 13, May Belt of PWB Electronics announced via e-mail that Peter W. Belt, the company's founder and her husband of many years, passed away on February 17. He was 87. Englishman Peter Belt came to attention in the mid-1980s, thanks mostly to a series of articles in HiFi Answers and other...

www.stereophile.com

That was simple genius... imagine... just send me a payment of $250 Paypal F&F and I will THINK about your system and it will sound better. For $325.99 I will think it into the Signature Level V mode. You'll love it.

Oh, for balanced systems, the price is $500 and $651.89.

 

[gags]

It seems extreme snake oil and gullible subjective reviewers have been around as long as audio reproduction devices.

View attachment 505575

Review published in Gramophone for Oct 1923​

​

"WHEN we invited Scientific and Projections Ltd, of Crawford Passage, Farringdon Road, London, EC 1, to send a Flamephone to this office for our tests …​

​

source: http://douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/COMMS/flamephone/flamephone.htm

Very close to where I work. I’ll have to view the people roaming the streets in the area with a close eye checking for snake oil consumption.

This is a strong case and the effect could easily last for over one hundred years ladies and gentlemen.

 

[101geo]

Veblen goods are pretty much defined as merchandise perceived to be in the conspicuous consumption category. They may or may not be overpriced. Examples are Rolls Royce and Bugatti (automobiles), Patek, Audemars and Vacheron (watches), Dom Perignon and Cristal (champagne) and Johnny Walker Blue Label (Scotch - I'd rather have Talisker). Are there better or more practical choices for less - sometimes, a lot less - money? Yes, often. It pretty much depends on personal taste and the depths of ones wallet or credit card. American Express Black, anyone?

But are they snake oil or scams? No. I have no problem at all with high-priced luxury goods. My problem is with goods that PRETEND to be that which they are not. And I think their purveyors should be prosecuted for fraud.

Synergistic Research SRX XL and IsoTek EVO3 Optimum 2M look out! If I'm ever appointed head of the Federal Trade Commission (a less than zero chance), I'm coming for you!

Sorry mate but Blue Label does not belong in that list.

 

[pablolie]

Magico speakers supposedly is very high performing. Also ultra expensive. Are they considered fraud?

They are amazing... if you have both the budget and room for their towers. Their bookshelf didn't sound any better than other alternatives to me.

 

[tony_ee]

Very close to where I work. I’ll have to view the people roaming the streets in the area with a close eye checking for snake oil consumption.

This is a strong case and the effect could easily last for over one hundred years ladies and gentlemen.

Hmm... did you read the replies to that post?

Do you know what the Plasmatronic speaker is?

I've heard it, and I got to tell you it was the closest to a real performance I've ever heard. Not even close.

 

[RetroStereo]

Sorry mate but Blue Label does not belong in that list.

JW Blue is a controversial subject among Scotch aficionados. It is undoubtedly one of the very best blended Scotches - maybe even the best - and it is certainly one of the more expensive. It sits on the top shelf at many a high-end bar. However, there are many single malts that out-class it. And many of them are significantly less expensive.

But I was remined of another example of Veblen goods: the Rolex Submariner, especially the green dial version. Rolex restricts the output to the point that "standard" models often require a 3 to 6 month wait and if you want one of the special editions or the green dial, the wait can be years. Purchasers often offer significantly over MSRP to get one sooner. Rolex is a great watch and possibly a good investment; but, after all, it's a watch. So is Timex.

 

[tony_ee]

I think I'd rather have a Tice Clock than a Rolex.

At least the Tice clock adds coherence to the soundstage and a wholesomeness to the presentation. And it's cheaper and I can see the time across the room.

If only the guy would take 50 bucks for it... he's stuck on 150 plus 50 for shipping... No deal.

Oh, I have four Seikos and a Samsung Galaxy watch.

 

[Revy]

Sounds like you guys would like this bad boy, for 8.3 million USD haha

 

[RetroStereo]

Oh, I have four Seikos and a Samsung Galaxy watch.

I've got a nice watch my grandfather gave me on my 21st birthday; however I hardly ever wear it anymore. My cellphone has replaced it.

 

[Andysu]

Sounds like you guys would like this bad boy, for 8.3 million USD haha


View attachment 522821

i'll take a 16oz hammer to this snobby rich class rubbish smash it up and see if can still tell time

 

[Revy]

I've got a nice watch my grandfather gave me on my 21st birthday; however I hardly ever wear it anymore. My cellphone has replaced it.

Ya dont really need one for telling time these days. Its just is jewelry for a man.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

At least the Tice clock adds coherence to the soundstage and a wholesomeness to the presentation.

and snake oil cures what ails ya