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Extreme Snake Oil

Spkrdctr said:
Ok, I have for a few years now had Shunyata as the "King" of the snake oil sellers. They represent the worst of the worst. They have it all. Marketing material that is pure rubbish and techno nonsense by the bucket full. I always wish someone with deep pockets could sue them out of existence. Then I foolishly looked at some Audio rags, I mean mags yesterday and saw an ad for Synergistic Speaker Wire I think it was. $28,000 for an 8 foot length. I now have put them at the top tier with Shunyata as both companies need to be hounded out of business. They represent the worst of the audio world. I know I should not be surprised, but I still am at the overwhelming amount of rip off and scam artists that are dominant in the audio industry. Just thought I would mention it today.
Our "hobby" is dominated by low life's, criminals and scammers of the highest order. They are true professionals at their trade.
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Beware of any audio companies with "Research" in their name. While I believe both are 100% snake oil, Synergistic is just over the top. Audiophile fuses, ... it's kind of hysterical.
 
I happened to be passing a stereo equipment store I knew nothing about and decided to stop in for a look-see. I mentioned that I was both a computer geek and interested in high-end audio. The man tried to sell me on a music server ($6500), a special ethernet switch (@2500), some expensive ethernet cables ($1000 each) and something he called a ground block: the Synergistic Research Galileo SX Active Ground Block Mk II -- said it would make the world of difference in the sound of my system.

For $12,500 for a "ground block" it ought to wine and dine me for years. I think the one in the server room at a very large law firm where I once worked cost about $200. For home use, a ground block is seldom needed; however, if you really want one, it should be under $30.

Needless to say, I won't be shopping there in the near future, or, like EVER!!!
 
RetroStereo said:
I happened to be passing a stereo equipment store I knew nothing about and decided to stop in for a look-see. I mentioned that I was both a computer geek and interested in high-end audio. The man tried to sell me on a music server ($6500), a special ethernet switch (@2500), some expensive ethernet cables ($1000 each) and something he called a ground block: the Synergistic Research Galileo SX Active Ground Block Mk II -- said it would make the world of difference in the sound of my system.

For $12,500 for a "ground block" it ought to wine and dine me for years. I think the one in the server room at a very large law firm where I once worked cost about $200. For home use, a ground block is seldom needed; however, if you really want one, it should be under $30.

Needless to say, I won't be shopping there in the near future, or, like EVER!!!
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It’s not a real ground anyway ,sometimes it’s literally a box of dirt like entreq ( they are covered back in this tread ), no actual grounding of any electrical circuits.

www.entreq.com

Ground Boxes - Entreq

www.entreq.com www.entreq.com

Hmm devious plan , wonder what they say if you want to use thier ground blocks for safety ground :) wonder what wonderful audiophile gooblegock they would answer with .

The support material specifically warns against connecting these so called ground boxes to each other hmm ;)
 
OMG.... come on.... everybody knows that electrons flow better when they've been harmonized.

I prefer my electrons myself when they have also been mono-crystall'ed. I've designed a converter box that takes ethernet on one side and outputs mono-crystal-harmonic frames on the other side. The "empty" sockets are unused.. The Ultra version of my box also take the incoming MTU and outputs only 1500 byte packets at 100Mbit... because jumbo frames affect the timing of the signal.

If you peel the sticker from the top, the warranty is void. I mean, it's not really a NetGear switch, you know?

Mind you, I have some serious disagreements with the measure-only approach when it comes to analog music... but when it comes to digital transmission, well, in 50 odd years of spending my life in an electronics/computer lab, I can't say that I've seen any examples where a well buffered, reliable connection based protocol affects the output of the DAC.

Now then... let's examine the paper from Entreq:

They claim: "The building’s safety-earth network is electrically noisy because it is shared by refrigerators, computers, switch-mode supplies, lighting dimmers and countless other devices. "..

Problem with that. In a modern home, wired to current code, the electrical circuits are wired separately. The "ground" connection of a component is wired directly to the fuse box which is then wired directly to an actual "ground". If you look at an electronic schematic you see how noise is not transferred from component to component when they are connected directly to the neutral (or ground). This is because the impedance of a direct connection is zero... much lower than the back impedance of other components also wired into the ground. So, no voltages are send backwards.

My refrigerator, for example, is one a completely difference circuit as my stereo systems... and their grounds all meet at a point with ZERO impedance to ground... Actually zero resistance as their is NO inductance in such a connection. This zero resistance is for all frequencies.

Now, you might have some noise coming up the neutral wire but that is fixed by having separate circuits... yes... my audio systems are on homeruns...

In Japan, they don't use a ground connection in their electronics... but even so... as long as you don't put something with a motor that generates some back EMF (via inductance) in parallel with your audio components you don't have an issue. And even then, you can always put some good filtering and shunts in your power supply - which you should always do!

So, in my professional opinion, and even allowing that as a physicist I have an open mind about things we may not understand, this "paper" is bogus.
 
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Low impedance not zero , ive done ground impedance measurements myself when working at a power company , but anyhow it's bollocks :)

The ground comes via an actual cable to your house not zero impedance . I agree that it is a point of common coupling . Gnd ( like L & N ) is then distributed to each outlet it can actually in practice be pulled from outlet to outlet in a daisy chain not every outlet has it's own separate wires straight to your fuse box.
Hence why it can be good to connect everything to the same outlet , every device get the same GND potential .

Entreq's bizarre boxes are just free floating :) maybe they do weird stuff in radar frequencies ?
 
And now something folks might really like :)

For a mere $29,700, you can have a QSA Gold AC receptacle with the "ULTRA Crystal Gold Red Level Treatment" (seems to be a more recent offering in their product line).

The words "Quantum Science Audio" appear above the description of the receptacle. Quotation from the page: A QSA receptacle will improve resolution, soundstage, & overall tonal/timbre balance in your system. The Gold receptacle has incredible smoothness & detail retrieval! Install this as your main system's outlet & elevate the ENTIRE system.

QSA Gold AC Receptacle
 

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Note that all Safety Ground/Protective Earth wires are connected to the Neutral in the main breaker box (it's good to have a different paths to that Neutral for all things not hi-fi). The homes Neutral is then connected to that big power company's transformers Neutral down the street.

While there is continuity from the Neutral to Planet Earth:

The Planet Earth connection has little to do with day-to-day AC power quality (and it has lots of inductance).
 
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Speedskater said:
Note that all Safety Ground/Protective Earth wires are connected to the Neutral in the main breaker box (it's good to have a different paths to that Neutral for all things not hi-fi). The homes Neutral is then connected to that big power company's transformers Neutral down the street.

While there is continuity from the Neutral to Planet Earth:

The Planet Earth connection has little to do with day-to-day AC power quality (and it has lots of inductance).
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Shhh. Don't tell. You may cause some audiophile to feel discriminated and/or offended.
 
Mnyb said:
Low impedance not zero , ive done ground impedance measurements myself when working at a power company , but anyhow it's bollocks :)

The ground comes via an actual cable to your house not zero impedance . I agree that it is a point of common coupling . Gnd ( like L & N ) is then distributed to each outlet it can actually in practice be pulled from outlet to outlet in a daisy chain not every outlet has it's own separate wires straight to your fuse box.
Hence why it can be good to connect everything to the same outlet , every device get the same GND potential .

Entreq's bizarre boxes are just free floating :) maybe they do weird stuff in radar frequencies ?
Click to expand...

The impedance to ground is low, much lower than the backwards impedance seen from the other devices in common to that ground point. So, for purposes of shunting stray voltages to ground, it is negligible.


Current, when figuring which path to follow, will ALWAYS follow the path of least resistance.

Individual installations of the grounding post will vary, but they will be magnitudes less "forward" impedance than the output impedance of the devices up stream (backwards). In my residential installation, the ground anode is five feet away from the breaker panel and it's a big rod and cable. The panel(s) are also fairly new... they got replaced 25 years ago and I keep them maintained and clean.

BTW, I've done work on RF.... Entreq is dubious at best.
 
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stefanovesa said:
furutech.com

The Empire Plus - Furutech

furutech.com furutech.com

Could be the pinnacle of the snake oil, because it is targeted to "audio professionals"
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Naw.... I've seen some of their products and they are very well made. I can understand their bill of materials and labor costs are pretty high.

Do they make a difference? Perhaps. Is the difference worth the price? Up to you. It's jewelry.

"Professionals"... sure.... no professional is going to spend that kind of money on stuff like... if I put something like that in the Parts List the Manager would fire me.
 
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tony_ee said:
Current, when figuring which path to follow, will ALWAYS follow the path of least resistance.
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That's actually a myth - at least if we take it to mean the least resistance path is the ONLY path it will follow. Current follows ALL paths, in proportion to their resistance. If the least resistance path is much lower than the others, a high proportion of the current will indeed follow it - but it's not all or nothing.
 
Alan O said:
That's actually a myth - at least if we take it to mean the least resistance path is the ONLY path it will follow. Current follows ALL paths, in proportion to their resistance. If the least resistance path is much lower than the others, a high proportion of the current will indeed follow it - but it's not all or nothing.
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My formal background is in Physics and Math.

In Physics we have a habit of saying "all of these terms to go zero" and we scratch them off.

Mathematicians, OTOH, go nuts... Oh No! those terms are interesting.. sure they are orders of magnitude smaller but, but!

To which, the Physicists will say "Look, when I drop the pencil it hits the ground, do you see it drift up to the sky?"

Sure, sure, current will flow in all paths... but, there is a practical limit. If you want to spend time doing the analysis go for it... meanwhile I'll bend over and pick up the pencil from the floor.

Oh, I might note that in this case, it's one of the few instances where Physicists and Electrical Engineers actually agree.

Now I have to go polish my Furutech ethernet cables.
 
tony_ee said:
The impedance to ground is low, much lower than the backwards impedance seen from the other devices in common to that ground point. So, for purposes of shunting stray voltages to ground, it is negligible.


Current, when figuring which path to follow, will ALWAYS follow the path of least resistance.

Individual installations of the grounding post will vary, but they will be magnitudes less "forward" impedance than the output impedance of the devices up stream (backwards). In my residential installation, the ground anode is five feet away from the breaker panel and it's a big rod and cable. The panel(s) are also fairly new... they got replaced 25 years ago and I keep them maintained and clean.

BTW, I've done work on RF.... Entreq is dubious at best.
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You got your own ground rod , it’s different around the world . Here its a ground wire system. There are rods somewhere but not adjacent to my house probably closer to the transformer, then its grid of uninsulated ground wires trough the whole neighbourhood to the distribution panels and then it arrives to my home in a four wire system 3 phases and PEN and then it splits in breaker panel to 3 phases N and PE .
In cities its possible to connect all ground systems together.

When I worked as an electrician when I was younger. I installed some grund wires and ground in rural settings typically there was a small transformer and a couple of houses . Not only I new installs , part of the work was to improve ground we measured and if needed installed more rods . Fun times it was nice with outdoor work as a young guy.

Entreq more than dubious :) it’s comedy . I’m fascinated by the product category , purely invented to con audiophiles out of money.
Sometimes audiophiles snake oil are distorted versions of real products like overhyped and overpriced cables .
But this kind of stuff ? You are supposed to need this extra box .

Sometimes I wish consumer protection laws where better
 
Mnyb said:
You got your own ground rod ,...

Entreq more than dubious :) it’s comedy . I’m fascinated by the product category , purely invented to con audiophiles out of money.
Sometimes audiophiles snake oil are distorted versions of real products like overhyped and overpriced cables .
But this kind of stuff ? You are supposed to need this extra box .

Sometimes I wish consumer protection laws where better
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm a pretty grounded personality. I believe everything I say ( to paraphrase David St. Hubbins )...

Then there's the Audiophile Incense.

I burn the Kyoto Signature Mark iV when playing classical Japanese koto music.... but when watching a Kabuki Performance, I find that the Ije Supreme Heian Matcha Kaori adds that extra touch of presence to the actors and enhances the feeling of connection between the actors and the audience.

Of course, for geisha performances, only the best Imperial Yamadamatsu Premium Kaori Meiji Signature will do. It has the best midrange!

Then we got sochu.... but I think that everybody will agree that after a few glasses of a nice 30% sochu Oyuwari even Gilbert and Sullivan's El Mikado sounds very Japanese. And after more glasses everything turns to mono as you fall onto the tatami with only one ear up in the sky... ;)

Audiophile sochu only works for the Shinjuku Punk Scene. Which is the weirdest thing you could imagine.

BTW- Not too long ago... I was walking around the back of the Imperial Palace in Kyoto.. where the Emperor had his private chambers. It was quiet, not too many people, very few tourists (just us and Japanese - I was the only gaijin in sight)... so I raised my arms parallel to the ground and I walked, quietly singing:

"My object all sublime, I shall achieve in time, to make the punishment fit the crime.."

it just seemed to be the place to do that. No audio needed, I did it a cappella. My wife thought I was nuts... but then... I was nicely grounded.

"I got a little list, and none shall be missed"... :)
 
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The video below covers some classics; such as white van speakers, cable lifters, ground boxes, CD marker pens, audiophile fuses. But what I thought was funny was KEF's April Fools' Day joke: The Hydro Blaster. :D Presented by @jackocleebrown
Starting at 13:00, he he:

 
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