Extreme Snake Oil

[whereisbrian]

Audio Note DACs are absolutely fantastic. You need to go to a Hi Fi show and listen for yourself. Their approach is very different from others and will surprise people with it's simplicity. The passive I/V conversion simply takes current output of the AD1865 DAC chip and uses a low value shunt resistor to get a voltage. The alternative is to use the internal op amp in the AD1865 and use the voltage output. That adds another stage to the audio path and a less than ideal one at that. The post conversion filtering in AN DACs is either minimal or nonexistent. Something that seems to bother some people but listen and decide for yourself. It is the most analog sounding digital source that I've ever heard. It's all about what you hear after all.

I don't know what a digital sound is and what an analog sound is

 

[Thighsofsteel]

Audio Note DACs are absolutely fantastic. You need to go to a Hi Fi show and listen for yourself. Their approach is very different from others and will surprise people with its simplicity. The passive I/V conversion simply takes current output of the AD1865 DAC chip and uses a low value shunt resistor to get a voltage. The alternative is to use the internal op amp in the AD1865 and use the voltage output. That adds another stage to the audio path and a less than ideal one at that. The post conversion filtering in AN DACs is either minimal or nonexistent. Something that seems to bother some people but listen and decide for yourself. It is the most analog sounding digital source that I've ever heard. It's all about what you hear after all.

Where do you think scientific measurements fit in to your hypothesis?

 

[Truth Ness]

Where do you think scientific measurements fit in to your hypothesis?

From the description:

"The Audio Note DAC5 Special Digital to Analogue converter has been specifically engineered for sonic performance rather than technical specification..."
ROFL

 

[Mnyb]

It’s very bothersome to remove the reconstruction filter as then the data is not properly reconstructed into the analog domain aka the DAC is broken by design and does not in fact tries to to be true the original source at all

AN fills all your audiophile buzzwords bingo cards they are a cargo cult there is no real engineering, they also spread the feedback is bad myth among many many other bs claims , they basically condens everything wrong with current high end to a single brand hence a fitting entry to this tread .

 

[Paul7777x]

Enough. I am a physicist.... I KNOW SCIENCE. I DO SCIENCE every day. I am EMPIRICAL... hence my being open to our paradigm changing.

Go Read Thomas Kuhn The Structure of Scientific Revolutions.

My point here was to showcase a web site selling products that are beyond the pale in price with flowery descriptions that have little basis in empirical resesearch. Something that engineers and scientists can agree on.

Can we please just enjoy reading that?

I’d suggest you ignore Kuhn and try Popper instead.

 

[Mike797]

It’s very bothersome to remove the reconstruction filter as then the data is not properly reconstructed into the analog domain aka the DAC is broken by design and does not in fact tries to to be true the original source at all

AN fills all your audiophile buzzwords bingo cards they are a cargo cult there is no real engineering, they also spread the feedback is bad myth among many many other bs claims , they basically condens everything wrong with current high end to a single brand hence a fitting entry to this tread .

Sorry dude, I'm no audiophile buzzed by words. I've spent decades producing and engineering records including several grammy winners. Listening has been the focus of my job. My decisions are based upon what I hear. I have several different kinds of amps and dacs and I can choose what to enjoy based upon what amuses me. I listen to my single ended tube amps both with and without global feedback and I like hearing it both ways and it is indeed different one from the other. Building gear to feed measurement instruments is fine in that you never have to listen to them and people can still make decisions about them without hearing them. I respect Audio Note for all of the thought and refinement that they put into their products as I do for Pass Labs. Neither of those companies has had to spend a single dollar on advertising. If you enjoy pointing fingers at products that you have never listened to then that is fine but you should at least make an effort to hear such products at a dealer or a hifi show. It's really not that hard to do.

 

[Mart68]

Neither of those companies has had to spend a single dollar on advertising.

That's incorrect.

If you enjoy pointing fingers at products that you have never listened to then that is fine but you should at least make an effort to hear such products at a dealer or a hifi show.

I don't know why Audionote people always assume that anyone who doesn't like Audionote has never listened to their equipment; like you would certainly become an instant convert.

They're at most UK shows, sometimes there's multiple rooms of it. But their sales volume is tiny. Some people like that sort of thing, I grant you that, but it's a very small minority. Not my sort of thing, it sounds to me like a 1950s radiogram with a bit of sparkle. Not objectionable by any means, but some distance from fidelity.

 

[whereisbrian]

Sorry dude, I'm no audiophile buzzed by words. I've spent decades producing and engineering records including several grammy winners. Listening has been the focus of my job. My decisions are based upon what I hear. I have several different kinds of amps and dacs and I can choose what to enjoy based upon what amuses me. I listen to my single ended tube amps both with and without global feedback and I like hearing it both ways and it is indeed different one from the other. Building gear to feed measurement instruments is fine in that you never have to listen to them and people can still make decisions about them without hearing them. I respect Audio Note for all of the thought and refinement that they put into their products as I do for Pass Labs. Neither of those companies has had to spend a single dollar on advertising. If you enjoy pointing fingers at products that you have never listened to then that is fine but you should at least make an effort to hear such products at a dealer or a hifi show. It's really not that hard to do.

I don't have your professional qualifications; I'm just a humble, retired logistics specialist

What interests me isn't going to hi-fi showrooms.

I listen to music. If the recording is bad, I need to hear it, and if it's good, I need to hear it too.

For me, there are two important points: the quality of the source, and the acoustics of the room, including speaker placement.
What's in between has been settled for a long time: it just needs to be well-built, with correct measurements. Nothing esoteric.

 

[Beave]

Sorry dude, I'm no audiophile buzzed by words. I've spent decades producing and engineering records including several grammy winners. Listening has been the focus of my job. My decisions are based upon what I hear. I have several different kinds of amps and dacs and I can choose what to enjoy based upon what amuses me. I listen to my single ended tube amps both with and without global feedback and I like hearing it both ways and it is indeed different one from the other. Building gear to feed measurement instruments is fine in that you never have to listen to them and people can still make decisions about them without hearing them. I respect Audio Note for all of the thought and refinement that they put into their products as I do for Pass Labs. Neither of those companies has had to spend a single dollar on advertising. If you enjoy pointing fingers at products that you have never listened to then that is fine but you should at least make an effort to hear such products at a dealer or a hifi show. It's really not that hard to do.

So you are able to go to a show and somehow discern the audio characteristics of the DAC while listening to a system that includes the DAC, an amp, speakers, and a room? That's impressive. Just as impressive as when I throw a rock and hit the moon at night.

 

[xanalog]

It saddens me that we have run-out of Snake Oils, not just the 'Extreme" kind!

...I don't have your professional qualifications; I'm just a humble,

I vote for more humble and less braggart...
Somewhere there is a definition of an"expert" as: An 'ex' is a has-been and a 'spurt' is a drip under pressure.

 

[Thighsofsteel]

Sorry dude, I'm no audiophile buzzed by words. I've spent decades producing and engineering records including several grammy winners. Listening has been the focus of my job. My decisions are based upon what I hear. I have several different kinds of amps and dacs and I can choose what to enjoy based upon what amuses me. I listen to my single ended tube amps both with and without global feedback and I like hearing it both ways and it is indeed different one from the other. Building gear to feed measurement instruments is fine in that you never have to listen to them and people can still make decisions about them without hearing them. I respect Audio Note for all of the thought and refinement that they put into their products as I do for Pass Labs. Neither of those companies has had to spend a single dollar on advertising. If you enjoy pointing fingers at products that you have never listened to then that is fine but you should at least make an effort to hear such products at a dealer or a hifi show. It's really not that hard to do.

I don’t believe you.

 

[Mike797]

You guys are really malignant here. And for me it's my first impression. I didn't go to a show and then buy a DAC. I built the Audio Note DAC Kit 1 back when Audio Note was selling kits direct. I bought it based on the description and the story of how Peter Q. and Andy Grove came to the conclusion that no oversampling and simple filtering was superior. I've gone on to modify my DAC with interstage transformers between the I/V conversion resistor and the grid resistor of the gain stage. I've added a pair of chokes for the high voltage filtering, I've regulated the filament voltage with it's own supply and transformer and I've added series resistors on all of the clock and data lines going to the AD1865 DAC chip which is the same chip in all of their DACs. I've also built my own tube amplifiers all from a schematics in Sound Practices magazine. Now I'm building a Nelson Pass First Watt design amplifier. I've built my favorite speakers too. You guys picked a fight with me. You are happy to insult me and now suggest that I'm a liar who just wants to manage your imaginations. I could care less what any of you think and I have no stake in any of this. You picked a fight and so l hit you hard with the facts. I'll bet that most of you have played records that I've done production of on your systems. I hate bullies and I'd rather deal with them face to face. I don't think any of you bullies would then be so bold. You guys have apparently lost the plot long ago on how a public forum should operate.

 

[Ropeburn]

I don't know what a digital sound is and what an analog sound is

I have a weakness for hybrid synthesizers. Flexible digital oscillators and analog filters for extra dirt and noise and glorious squelchiness. Best of all worlds!

 

[xanalog]

You guys are really malignant here.

Well, I'd normally greet a new member with"Welcome aboard", but...

 

[Beave]

You guys are really malignant here. And for me it's my first impression. I didn't go to a show and then buy a DAC. I built the Audio Note DAC Kit 1 back when Audio Note was selling kits direct. I bought it based on the description and the story of how Peter Q. and Andy Grove came to the conclusion that no oversampling and simple filtering was superior. I've gone on to modify my DAC with interstage transformers between the I/V conversion resistor and the grid resistor of the gain stage. I've added a pair of chokes for the high voltage filtering, I've regulated the filament voltage with it's own supply and transformer and I've added series resistors on all of the clock and data lines going to the AD1865 DAC chip which is the same chip in all of their DACs. I've also built my own tube amplifiers all from a schematics in Sound Practices magazine. Now I'm building a Nelson Pass First Watt design amplifier. I've built my favorite speakers too. You guys picked a fight with me. You are happy to insult me and now suggest that I'm a liar who just wants to manage your imaginations. I could care less what any of you think and I have no stake in any of this. You picked a fight and so l hit you hard with the facts. I'll bet that most of you have played records that I've done production of on your systems. I hate bullies and I'd rather deal with them face to face. I don't think any of you bullies would then be so bold. You guys have apparently lost the plot long ago on how a public forum should operate.

You are new here. Your very first post challenged many of the underlying reasons this forum exists (the importance of measurements, the importance of doing controlled testing and not just casual sighted listening). So you received blow back. Not surprising.

You reply by bragging about your credentials. Even credentialed professionals are susceptible to sighted biases. You are not immune. Nobody is immune.

You reply with more bragging about what you have built, then passively/aggressively criticizing us while acting like you're the victim ("You guys are really malignant here." "You guys picked a fight with me." "You are happy to insult me..." "I could care less what any of you think....")

Then you claim you "hit (us) hard with the facts." What facts? Measurements? Controlled listening test results? Or just claims of your own expertise?

Then you insinuate that you would handle this physically if face to face with thinly veiled references to fighting? ("I hate bullies and I'd rather deal with them face to face. I don't think any of you bullies would then be so bold.")

You tell us that we have "apparently lost the plot long ago on how a public forum should operate." Ever consider that you lost the plot on how a new member to an established forum should behave in his first few posts? Maybe get a feel for the place before going on the attack?

 

[PristineSound]

I've gone on to modify my DAC with interstage transformers between the I/V conversion resistor and the grid resistor of the gain stage.

Presumably you noticed sonic differences with these resistors?

Can you please provide the science as to why and how resistors of the same value would make a sonic difference in audio equipment?

 

[mhardy6647]

I don't know what a digital sound is and what an analog sound is

I have some old computer programs stored on cassette tape if you'd like to hear them sometime...

 

[BeeKay]

I have some old computer programs stored on cassette tape if you'd like to hear them sometime...

Back in the days

 

[Ropeburn]

I have some old computer programs stored on cassette tape if you'd like to hear them sometime...

At some point, they sold games and other programs in magazines, on 7" records, really thin and flimsy ones. Floppy disks literally...

 

[xanalog]

Can you please provide the science as to why and how resistors of the same value would make a sonic difference in audio equipment?

Snarky, Little-Johnny -in the back of the classroom- would like to answer your question, if permitted.
Spoiler: The answer will most likely be about the cost of Epstein's girl-friends... like the cost of the 6th-band of a resistor that is GRAY in color [@1ppm/K]


[I had forgotten previously to ADD the proper smilie.]