HaveMeterWillTravel
Senior Member
This is an excellent point. There is _always_ a measurable difference. The magic lies in determining how much of a difference is significant.
-
Welcome to ASR. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
Roland68
Major Contributor
Adding 5% mass to the woofer's diaphragm, or adjusting the passive crossover frequency, really have nothing to do with it.
Zobel/Boucherot circuits/filters have an effect on the amplifier side if the amplifier or the amplifier circuit has a problem with them. That's why some amplifiers already have such circuits built in.
antcollinet
Grand Contributor
It's not that magic. You can - for example test your own ability to detect distortion.
You might be surprised just how big it has to get before you can hear it with real music. With that test the vast majority of people cannot hear anything below about -45dB. The average is around -20dB
I just tried again - couldn't detect it below -18dB with that section of music, using speakers.
That's about 10%THD. Some 10,000 times bigger than the best DACs are doing.
antcollinet
Grand Contributor
Using the full range speaker option (I have a sub) and cranking the volume, I was able to get to -27dB
Nutul
Senior Member
I have made that test a few times in the past couple of years, and was never able to get any better (better?!?) results than around -30dB, using speakers (I do not like/use headphones, and I believe with them I could get far - again - "better").
It is indeed weird (but somehow wonderful) that you need to reach so high percentages to actually hear something is going wrong; the performance of the modern devices, at thousandths of such values, seem futile...
It is indeed weird (but somehow wonderful) that you need to reach so high percentages to actually hear something is going wrong; the performance of the modern devices, at thousandths of such values, seem futile...
It only seems like that if you view this one parameter in isolation - which doesn't make much sense. The overall properties of a driver or speaker system always come as a package deal. A driver that compresses early and badly for example will also have higher distortion than another that doesn't. And so on. A good driver will have good properties in all regards - including distortion, even if it may not be the most important.
HaveMeterWillTravel
Senior Member
Then that is a post-hoc attempt to correct a design failure of an unstable amplifier which doesn't have enough phase margin for the full audio bandwidth.
From the amplifier's perspective, all the 'circuit' is doing is providing an additional pole whose frequency is determined by the time constant of the RC parameters.
Can buying random cables with integrated circuits 'work'?
Sure.
It can also be an easy way to blow through a lot of time, effort and money.
HaveMeterWillTravel
Senior Member
This is a great test for practical application with music, but it is inherently less sensitive to the threshold detection of audibility using more other test methods such as using engineered signals which increase the sensitivity.
My curiosity often lies on maximizing a test's sensitivity. I would find it more interesting if one could upload their own .wav files to the site to use.
Punter
Active Member
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2022
- Messages
- 295
- Likes
- 1,370
Once again, the snake oil vendors trot out a bunch of electrical theory and jumble it all up to make this useless box seem effective!
"our "Real-Sound Processor" has two major functions, one is making an improvement to reduce the fluctuations of speaker’s impedance frequency characteristic. The other is absorbing that counter-electromotive current from speaker including network composed of some inductors. Accordingly, the processor makes amplifier possible to drive the speaker more faithfully for sound source, improving the sound resolution and the start-up, also reproduces natural resonances. Above all you could find out the deep, rich and fascinating tonal characters you have never experienced before and also agree how amplifier could drive speaker easily!!"
What a load of tosh!
They also have these for sale .
WOW! It's a piece of wood!!
IPunchCholla
Major Contributor
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2022
- Messages
- 1,305
- Likes
- 1,745
You can take it with pure sine tones as well, which should be the most sensitive test.
antcollinet
Grand Contributor
Which is great and all.
But surely what we all care about when it comes to listening...... is music.
Engineered signals are great for measurements, but pretty pointless for listening tests. I don't care if I can hear -oodles dB of distortion on a test signal if that level is beyond audiblity when I am listening to music
On the other hand if you are interested @pkane 's "distort" app will apply whatever distortion you like to any file.
antcollinet
Grand Contributor
It's always room and speakers (and in this case microphones)
It's room and speakers (and in this case microphones) all the way down.
In my early retail iteration I tried a couple of SPEC products, I quickly discovered that when they were fed with a higher than 2V input they produced the most incredible speaker destroying cracking noise, obviously I wrote to them immediately , they said they would investigate next model I ordered exactly the same issue.
It was a short term relationship, if I remember the guy behind it had been with Sony, their marketing department presumably.
Keith
Yes, but a nice one, so there's that
, but i wonder, wouldn't Bamboo with the same thickness be even better?
MAB
Major Contributor
You didn't even take the time to read what tests are available.
Yes, I get it, you are pushing the envelope while everybody else is standing still, but you should take the test, including the one with sine tones to maximize your sensitivity.
HaveMeterWillTravel
Senior Member
I was responding to the posted link.
I did just take the linked test. That test just stops at -45 dB for me without any errors. I posted in another thread, maybe I am doing something wrong?
It also is not really a test on _only if_ one can hear a difference. That is an element, but it's actually a bit more than that.
But I'm planning on making a separate thread where I post my thoughts and deconstruct some elements of it.
Just to get a better understanding on what it is, what it isn't, and some of the limitations.
This is not meant to disparage the Klippel in anyway. It is rather neat and serves a public good.
But it is also a public facing website intended to be simple and straight forward. I'm confident this is not what THEY use themselves.
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2019
- Messages
- 14,145
- Likes
- 31,739
Our yard in Massachusetts was full of red oaks. I coulda been rich; who knew?
(basically all the big trunks in the photo above are red oaks)
Since the topic of red oak has, bewilderingly
, surfaced. Boy howdy, does that stuff smell terrible when cut while it is still wet! 
Basilderat
Member
Fasten Your Seat Belts
UPS delivered three cardboard boxes that contained first-class hardshell plastic flight containers with the BlackGrounds. Louis had warned me to keep them away from my system as they would affect it without even being connected or plugged in. I left them in my garage.
For the cost of these do nothing boxes he reviewed, I could have some seriously great speakers with a quality amp and a DAC, possibly with money left over for a used car. Or at least a good cup of coffee.Fasten Your Seat Belts
UPS delivered three cardboard boxes that contained first-class hardshell plastic flight containers with the BlackGrounds. Louis had warned me to keep them away from my system as they would affect it without even being connected or plugged in. I left them in my garage.
Similar threads
