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Extreme Snake Oil

I clicked on it, my wife heard it. She listens to a lot of books on Audible and the first thing she said was, "I'd have to put that guy on at least double speed to get through that."

Then, I stopped.

Who is in charge of creating our myths?
 
I clicked on it, my wife heard it. She listens to a lot of books on Audible and the first thing she said was, "I'd have to put that guy on at least double speed to get through that."

Then, I stopped.

Who is in charge of creating our myths?

pffft! Another "my wife heard it from the other room" story! Just what we need...rolleyes


:D
 
RE the link-blocking, when I click on the link in the first post of this thread, I get the Forbidden page/error that others report.

However, as an FYI, if I hold down the command key (I'm on a Mac) and click the link - which is the way to force the linked page to load in a new tab regardless of whether it would normally - it takes me to the proper page, no Forbidden page or error.

As for the myths, we can pretty much all agree, yes?

1. Hi-res audio sounds better because of its ultrasonic content - Yes, a myth

2. Supertweeters work because they reveal ultrasonic content - Yes, a myth

3. Digital is just ones and zeroes and is impervious to interference - Yes, a myth - BUT digital transmission is more robust than is often claimed, and transmission errors manifest themselves as obvious problems, not "subtly altered soundstage" or "reduced musicality and pacing." So "digital is just ones and zeroes and is in most applications highly resistant to interference" is not a myth.

4. Analogue sounds better than digital (LP vs. CD) - Yes, a myth (even if you think analogue/LP can sound better than digital/CD, I presume few of us here would argue that analogue always or inevitably sounds better)

5. All amps (or DACs) sound the same - Yes, a myth - but No, not a myth when, as noted in an earlier comment above, measurements indicate they should sound the same

6. Valve (tube) amps are only enjoyable to listen to because of their added distortion (and transformers are bad) - I would say Yes, a myth, because there are additional possible factors. But no, not a myth in the sense that added distortion and/or power issues are almost certainly contributing factors in at least some cases.

7. Speaker cables all sound the same - No, not a myth, so long as we're talking about properly designed/constructed cables and we're not using 22AWG zip cord for a 50 foot run.

8. 3-way speakers are better than 2-way (or, conversely, full-range speakers are better than 2-way speakers) - Yes, a myth

9. DSP can solve all response problems - Yes, a myth

10. Frequency response (and other specifications) will reliably tell us how a piece of equipment will sound - A meaningless statement because it depends on which and how many other specifications, and when it comes to speakers it also depends on the level of precision we are looking for in how a piece of equipment will sound. For example, FR, dispersion/directivity, and distortion cannot tell us exactly how a speaker will sound, but it can tell us quite a bit about how it will sound.
 
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RE the link-blocking, when I click on the link in the first post of this thread, I get the Forbidden page/error that others report.

However, as an FYI, if I hold down the command key (I'm on a Mac) and click the link - which is the way to force the linked page to load in a new tab regardless of whether it would normally - it takes me to the proper page, no Forbidden page or error.

As for the myths, we can pretty much all agree, yes?

1. Hi-res audio sounds better because of its ultrasonic content - Yes, a myth

2. Supertweeters work because they reveal ultrasonic content - Yes, a myth

3. Digital is just ones and zeroes and is impervious to interference - Yes, a myth - BUT digital transmission is more robust than is often claimed, and transmission errors manifest themselves as obvious problems, not "subtly altered soundstage" or "reduced musicality and pacing." So "digital is just ones and zeroes and is in most applications highly resistant to interference" is not a myth.

4. Analogue sounds better than digital (LP vs. CD) - Yes, a myth (even if you think analogue/LP can sound better than digital/CD, I presume few of us here would argue that analogue always or inevitably sounds better)

5. All amps (or DACs) sound the same - Yes, a myth - but No, not a myth when, as noted in an earlier comment above, measurements indicate they should sound the same

6. Valve (tube) amps are only enjoyable to listen to because of their added distortion (and transformers are bad) - I would say Yes, a myth, because there are additional possible factors. But no, not a myth in the sense that added distortion and/or power issues are almost certainly contributing factors in at least some cases.

7. Speaker cables all sound the same - No, not a myth, so long as we're talking about properly designed/constructed cables and we're not using 22AWG zip cord for a 50 foot run.

8. 3-way speakers are better than 2-way (or, conversely, full-range speakers are better than 2-way speakers) - Yes, a myth, and we all agree

9. DSP can solve all response problems - Yes, a myth, and we all agree

10. Frequency response (and other specifications) will reliably tell us how a piece of equipment will sound - A meaningless statement because it depends on which and how many other specifications, and when it comes to speaker it also depends on the level of precision we are looking for in how a piece of equipment will sound. For example, FR, dispersion/directivity, and distortion cannot tell us exactly how a speaker will sound, but it can tell us quite a bit about how it will sound.
Quite fair.
 
Valve amplifiers sound better to human ears because the harmonic distortion is in even rather than odd harmonics. Valve amplifiers "self-limit" or "soft-limit" when the output transformer becomes saturated. Along with both of those properties, valve amplifiers tend to have a more pronounced high frequency roloff than solid state amps. There is no black magic or Voodoo involved in the difference between valve and solid state. The effects are known and measurable.
 
All the Quad amps sound different?

Well, my II's and 303 sound the same typically, the 405-2's I once owned needed some hours to remove a slight 'sparkle' but then didn't 'sound' at all, the 77 power amp was AB rather than current dumping and sounded, well, like a Quad ( :D ) and the 606 family 'sounds better' because of the extra power and four ohm driving ability... All subjective obviously :D and I'm sticking to that vibe.
 
Quite an interesting interview…

The one about measurement… Darko lined up a loaded statement… Peter didn’t fall for it, he did share that he used measurements quite a bit in his design work. Ha ha.
 
RE the link-blocking, when I click on the link in the first post of this thread, I get the Forbidden page/error that others report.

However, as an FYI, if I hold down the command key (I'm on a Mac) and click the link - which is the way to force the linked page to load in a new tab regardless of whether it would normally - it takes me to the proper page, no Forbidden page or error.

As for the myths, we can pretty much all agree, yes?

1. Hi-res audio sounds better because of its ultrasonic content - Yes, a myth

2. Supertweeters work because they reveal ultrasonic content - Yes, a myth

3. Digital is just ones and zeroes and is impervious to interference - Yes, a myth - BUT digital transmission is more robust than is often claimed, and transmission errors manifest themselves as obvious problems, not "subtly altered soundstage" or "reduced musicality and pacing." So "digital is just ones and zeroes and is in most applications highly resistant to interference" is not a myth.

4. Analogue sounds better than digital (LP vs. CD) - Yes, a myth (even if you think analogue/LP can sound better than digital/CD, I presume few of us here would argue that analogue always or inevitably sounds better)

5. All amps (or DACs) sound the same - Yes, a myth - but No, not a myth when, as noted in an earlier comment above, measurements indicate they should sound the same

6. Valve (tube) amps are only enjoyable to listen to because of their added distortion (and transformers are bad) - I would say Yes, a myth, because there are additional possible factors. But no, not a myth in the sense that added distortion and/or power issues are almost certainly contributing factors in at least some cases.

7. Speaker cables all sound the same - No, not a myth, so long as we're talking about properly designed/constructed cables and we're not using 22AWG zip cord for a 50 foot run.

8. 3-way speakers are better than 2-way (or, conversely, full-range speakers are better than 2-way speakers) - Yes, a myth

9. DSP can solve all response problems - Yes, a myth

10. Frequency response (and other specifications) will reliably tell us how a piece of equipment will sound - A meaningless statement because it depends on which and how many other specifications, and when it comes to speakers it also depends on the level of precision we are looking for in how a piece of equipment will sound. For example, FR, dispersion/directivity, and distortion cannot tell us exactly how a speaker will sound, but it can tell us quite a bit about how it will sound.
I wonder if #9 is even a myth, or just a strawman? I don't think I've seen anyone except maybe major newbies on DAW forums thinking that DSP could solve all response problems.

I might also argue that #6 is not a myth. An amp is supposed to add gain to a signal, that's it. If it's got enough power to deliver the SPL you want, then in general any amp is as good as another. So if one is more enjoyable to listen to than another, you'd have to argue that either it has audibly more or less distortion than a putative neutral amp. It can't have the same output, and variance in output can all be classified as noise or distortion.

Nobody including real snake oil enthusiasts argues that tube amps have LESS distortion, (not that I'm aware of, anyway) so what else could it be?

Maybe they attribute the added enjoyment to the cool glowing glass doohickeys?
 
Previously, 1 million taps was required for proper reconstruction of analogue signal.

Now with Dave M-Scaler coming, a lot more than 1 million taps is required

He still holds strong on his position of -301dB noise shaper accuracy required

 
Tap-Dance.jpg


Of course, the more the taps, the better the sound will be...more musical, punchier, larger soundstage etc :)
 
for proper reconstruction of analogue signal.
Here's something that shocked me...

A few years ago I was doing some experiments with an oscilloscope and a computer at work. The output from the particular soundcard was stair-stepped and completely unfiltered! This wasn't exactly a "high fidelity" setup but I used it to listen to music after hours and I never noticed anything wrong! Then when I thought about it... the harmonics are above the audio range, the amplifier may have some filtering, and the speakers will provide "mechanical" filtering. So it shouldn't be that surprising.
 
I could have told Rob Watts prior to 2018 that he would be coming out with a Scaler with more taps. He really wasted 5 years. I mean if 1 million is better than less obviously more than 1 million is better.

Of course it still is quite incredible that the old high end idea was straighwire with gain. Simpler is better. The fewer things going on the less damage. Now with digital it is exactly the reverse. The more going on, the more complex, the more things between one end and the other the better it is. Complexity and expense without end for limitless improvement. Oh and of course the result is always "more natural".
 
I was afraid of this. All that inflation in 2021-22 was inevitably going to have an impact. You need more than a million taps today to get the same 301dB S/N ratio that you could get with only 700,000 taps in 2019. If the Fed hadn't slowed things down with interest rate hikes, you'd need 1.5 million taps, so at least be thankful for that.
 
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