Extreme Snake Oil

[olieb]

Results from the VIDAR will always be better than any other break in method used.

Ridiculous. I burn my stuff in with my Tesla coil - in full moon nights, of course.
It's not even a contest.

EDIT: Shouldn't this all go here?

Extreme Snake Oil

Ok, I have for a few years now had Shunyata as the "King" of the snake oil sellers. They represent the worst of the worst. They have it all. Marketing material that is pure rubbish and techno nonsense by the bucket full. I always wish someone with deep pockets could sue them out of existence...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Ste_S]

Burn in is just marketing to dissuade people from returing their newly purchased cables/equipment straight away, when they sound the same, or worse, than their exisiting equipment, isn't it?

Fairplay to Nordost though for also using this to ensure people buy from Nordost approved dealers, with an upsell for an additional cost.

 

[stoo23]

Fairplay

??? What ??,.. surely you 'Jest'

 

[AdamG]

Ridiculous. I burn my stuff in with my Tesla coil - in full moon nights, of course.
It's not even a contest.

EDIT: Shouldn't this all go here?

Extreme Snake Oil

Ok, I have for a few years now had Shunyata as the "King" of the snake oil sellers. They represent the worst of the worst. They have it all. Marketing material that is pure rubbish and techno nonsense by the bucket full. I always wish someone with deep pockets could sue them out of existence...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Merged here. Thanks for your assistance.

 

[egellings]

In most cases, yes. Sometimes there are products that break the envelope and significantly improve on the SotA, like the Mola Mola Tambaqui or, more recently, the Ideon Absolute DAC. So, the price can be justified by the research and, at least initially, the exclusivity, for once related to measurable quality. But progress in DACs is so fast that such levels of SQ can often be achieved shortly afterwards at more humane prices.

I think that consumer audio DACs have gotten so good that improvements in technical parameters would no longer be audible.

 

[mocenigo]

I think that consumer audio DACs have gotten so good that improvements in technical parameters would no longer be audible.

I fully agree, but there are effects that are not measured even here. For instance, what is the effect of a different ratio of DAC output to sink input impedance? The Topping DACs have a middle output impedance, around 100 to 300Ω. The Ideon Absolute ε DAC has an output impedance of just 15Ω. It is clear that some extra engineering effort has been put there, and it is not that easy to make an (inexpensive) circuit with low noise and distortion AND low output impedance. So, in some systems one might still hear a difference between a Topping D90 and an Ideon Absolute ε. Some DACs have a strong output stage capable of a 30V swing (i.e. between -15 and +15) so they can drive certain power amps directly. And so on.

Just the noise and distortion measurement only tell us whether two devices, when put in a system where BOTH are working under ideal electric conditions, are indistinguishable. And this is a gap that is often exploited by snake oil vendors. This is of course not the case of the Ideon engineers, which simply designed a device that works almost always under ideal conditions — not so for the Topping. But oh well I added a Pre90 and now I am safe.

 

[egellings]

I fully agree, but there are effects that are not measured even here. For instance, what is the effect of a different ratio of DAC output to sink input impedance? The Topping DACs have a middle output impedance, around 100 to 300Ω. The Ideon Absolute ε DAC has an output impedance of just 15Ω. It is clear that some extra engineering effort has been put there, and it is not that easy to make an (inexpensive) circuit with low noise and distortion AND low output impedance. So, in some systems one might still hear a difference between a Topping D90 and an Ideon Absolute ε. Some DACs have a strong output stage capable of a 30V swing (i.e. between -15 and +15) so they can drive certain power amps directly. And so on.

Just the noise and distortion measurement only tell us whether two devices, when put in a system where BOTH are working under ideal electric conditions, are indistinguishable. And this is a gap that is often exploited by snake oil vendors. This is of course not the case of the Ideon engineers, which simply designed a device that works almost always under ideal conditions — not so for the Topping. But oh well I added a Pre90 and now I am safe.

100 to 300 ohm Zo wouldn't be damaging if that output were driving a preamp or power amp input, which typically exceed 10K. Directly driving headphones would be a totally different story for sure.

 

[mocenigo]

100 to 300 ohm Zo wouldn't be damaging if that output were driving a preamp or power amp input, which typically exceed 10K. Directly driving headphones would be a totally different story for sure.

I agree. But there are preamps and power amps with a much lower Zin.

 

[mhardy6647]

Dude.
Ultra Feet for McIntosh components.
They'll sell like hotcakes.

(from a third party, thankfully)

 

[Ze Frog]

The reviewer compares it to his $50K DAC??? $50K???

I'd love to see that reviewed here.

 

[pinger]

I think that consumer audio DACs have gotten so good that improvements in technical parameters would no longer be audible.

Yeah the only thing that affects the sound is speakers

 

[Ze Frog]

I find it VERY interesting that;

Hmmm OK,.....

Really !!??, OK, but it's fine to hand-off this 'logistically involved' and Obviously Seriously Time consuming task to your Dealers !!
What a total pack of,.... (Insert appropriate expletive)

I would have loved to have had the contract to build all those ridiculous 'Burn-In' devices,... LOL

Lol, it's a gap in the market waiting to be exploited. People send their cables to you, pay £10,000 for entry level break-in for 6 months leading up to the Platinum tier where you burn them in for 25 year's. Beauty of this is the ones that can afford it and go for this likely haven't got 25 year's left. Just look at that machine, it's a joke, lol, with it's SMD's and chips etc, far too digital. Build this with tubes and a steampunk vibe with point to point wiring and then be bang on the money.

 

[MoreWatts]

This 'deal' is available on another forum. Used at one-third MSRP. They'll ship at their expense. Since they're used they are probably already 'burned-in.' For $35K you get cables that look like the nylon webbing used on old-school folding lawn chairs.

"Nordost Odin 1 Speaker Cables, Spade/Spade 3.0 Meter Length.

I don't see any flaws what's so ever and conservatively rated at 9/10 condition.

Comes with Nordost wooden box. $34K new retail - My asking is $9,995.00

Will ship via FEDEX at my expense to CONUS.

PayPal F&F, Zelle, Wells Fargo Counter deposit, Money Order, Personal check (No PP CC)."

 

[Brian Hall]

This 'deal' is available on another forum. Used at one-third MSRP. They'll ship at their expense.

"Nordost Odin 1 Speaker Cables, Spade/Spade 3.0 Meter Length.

I don't see any flaws what's so ever and conservatively rated at 9/10 condition.

Comes with Nordost wooden box. $34K new retail - My asking is $9,995.00

Will ship via FEDEX at my expense to CONUS.

PayPal F&F, Zelle, Wells Fargo Counter deposit, Money Order, Personal check (No PP CC)."

How are these people not embarrassed to admit they fell for this snake oil BS?

 

[JaMaSt]

I personally only buy genuine fake snake oil products.

 

[Brian Hall]

I personally only buy genuine fake snake oil products.


View attachment 364612

And they will sound identical to the Nordost cables.

 

[JaMaSt]

And they will sound identical to the Nordost cables.

It's probably because Nordost's cables were made by the same manufacturer in China. There really is no way that a US or EU company can manufacture and bring these types of cables - made entirely of materials made in the US and/or EU - to market.

 

[terryforsythe]

I'm introducing a new line of audio cables. They are hand crafted and then put through a very special burn-in procedure to make them supercalifragilisticexpialidocious. Specifically, after my audiophile friend got food poisoning and had an unfortunate accident on his audio cables, they sounded 1000x better. The transparency and imaging were simply incredible. So, for my new burn-procedure, I put the cables into a septic tank while I use them to play Baby Shark Doo Do Doo Do on continuous loop for a specified number hours. Price is $1,000/hour. There is a 100 hour minimum, but I recommend 600 hours. Use promo code BSDooDoo to add 30% to the price, which will make them sound even better since, as we all know, the more you spend the better it sounds.

 

[egellings]

Yeah the only thing that affects the sound is speakers

Vinyl playback setups can have a lot of variability in S.Q. as well. If the device is electro-mechanical, you'll get variability. Electronics, once good enough, will sound very similar if not identical.