Expensive loudspeakers that sound bad

[Siwel]

I've recently scanned the web for what classical music labels and orchestras are using:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ers-are-the-classical-music-pros-using.12225/

I think it's important to be clear about exactly what I said so I am going to quote myself:

I don't think B&Ws are used today in many American studios at all. Can't speak to English or Continental practice but the 800 series isn't something I see in studios anywhere around here which has a goodly studio scene. I think the studio use of B&W 800s is long ago and far away except perhaps for very specific people and circumstances. The form factor doesn't work for most studios. Maybe for mastering? The Series 800s I was considering were big and exiting but quite bright both times I heard them.
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When I said "specific people and circumstances" I was indeed thinking of classical recording, often in large spaces. I could have been clearer about that but I don't know how to be much clearer about the other comments I put in bold this time for clarity. I think all or almost all of the applications called out in the links to various locations are clustered in Europe or Great Britain and generally at classical recording studios. Also, one is listed for mastering where I am aware they have been used in the past.

B&Ws are very rare (I won't say "never" but.......) in American studios, possibly because we do very little classical recording apart from remotes at actual concert halls. There are a few notable exceptions in major centers like LA or NY. Both of these cities have dedicated recording rooms for full orchestras (often for use on film tracks) but I couldn't say what those use for monitoring.

In America the B&W line is largely a high end hi fi proposition with very little if any pro support.
I'll stand by this. You don't see many late model B&Ws in American studios.


This isn't meant to be a knock on them or their quality, but they are a bit player in the pro market here.

 

[tuga]

I think it's important to be clear about exactly what I said so I am going to quote myself:




When I said "specific people and circumstances" I was indeed thinking of classical recording and very large spaces. I could have been clearer about that but I don't know how to be much clearer about the other comments I put in bold this time for clarity. All (or almost all) of the applications called out in the links are clustered in Europe or Great Britain at classical recording studios. Also, one listed for mastering. They are very rare (I won't say "never") in American studios, possibly because we do very little classical recording apart from remotes at actual concert halls. There are a few notable exceptions in major centers like LA or NY. Both of these cities have dedicated recording rooms for full orchestras (often for use on film tracks) but I couldn't say what those use for monitoring.

In America the B&W line is largely a high end hi fi proposition with very little if any pro support.
I'll stand by this. You don't see many B&Ws in American studios.

This isn't meant to be a knock on them or their quality, but they are a bit player in the pro market here.

I wasn't questioning you views, merely complementing them.
It's quite likely that most studios in Europe are using active pro monitors too, probaly some near-field cheapos on the mixing console and some larger high-SPL main/midfield boxes on wall brackets or soffit-mounted.

 

[Russ_L]

RFT speakers from East Germany. There was model we sold and it was called a BR-26 Classic and we would stack them on top of each other and call it a B-52 ;P We slang called them Really F***** Terrible.

The B-52 pilots are lovingly referred to as the BUF pilots as in big ugly f___ers.

Russ

 

[Siwel]

I wasn't questioning you views, merely complementing them.
It's quite likely that most studios in Europe are using active pro monitors too, probaly some near-field cheapos on the mixing console and some larger high-SPL main/midfield boxes on wall brackets or soffit-mounted.

I picked your reply at random but since it was the first of a few seemingly contesting my comment I can see why you thought I might have singled it out. I wanted to be clear that European and American practices and equipment selections can be quite different.

BTW, I fully agree with what you wrote here. Soffit mounting remains the favored approach to high powered monitor location in many studios where floor space is always at a premium or where having a big console between the engineer and the speaker can make for some pretty specific placement requirements.

I have probably been in more recording studios than most people since it was my job to cater to them them for 40 years. That doesn't make my comments more valuable than anybody else's but I hope it explains the basis for my opinion.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I wanted to be clear that European and American practices and equipment selections can be quite different.

I don't think this should be a big surprise. Europe and US both have big markets good local specialists and local reps. Also foreign heavy monitors will be expensive to ship and require a local rep to support so US kit will be (and is) more expensive here than comparable European kit and often extremely poorly represented (JBL!). I would be surprised if it wasn't the other way round in the US.
It makes complete sense to use local specialists.
Some US brands are well supported here but they are always much more expensive, presumably to pay the shipping, local support cost and extra profit.
I have had US made kit in the past but not any more.
The cheaper stuff is rarely imported here since the shipping then is a ridiculously large proportion of the price.

 

[onslash]

I heard that model of speaker in Singapore at the Adelphi Mall. Anyone with a modicum of experience messing with audio gear would have known within 15 seconds that it was a broken-ass design.

The gryphon at adelphi also sounds quite broken

 

[tuga]

I haven't listened to any Focals in the past 5 or 6 years but prior models were definite ear-bleeders.

 

[mhardy6647]

I haven't listened to any Focals in the past 5 or 6 years but prior models were definite ear-bleeders.

The one unforgivable sin of a loudspeaker -- to my ears and taste.

 

[steve59]

Back to B&W and i'm sure I read they donated quite a few 801's back in the day (90's)as part of their marketing ploy 'most studios use B&W'. I don't think I can locate that piece or verify its validity, it just stuck with me because I always found the speakers dull and lifeless. As to modern B&W, idk, idc.

 

[Ilkless]

The gryphon at adelphi also sounds quite broken

As does the PMC on the ground floor. Horrendous. There's also a couple of snooty shops selling Magico and Audio Note. The Harbeth shop was tolerable, as was Dynaudio but unremarkable otherwise. There's a shop selling Vivid and, another, Kii, but I haven't gone to either yet. These are the only ones that really interest me there.

 

[raindance]

Von Schweikert VR4's. I lusted after these for years and lucked upon a pristine pair a few years ago. Very bright / lean sounding with this huge hole in the upper bass (measured with REW, moved all around my room to try to fix this). They extend into the 20's at the bottom, but there's no foundation to music and they're just thin sounding with this thump at the bottom. I believe the issue is that the small enclosure doesn't have enough output in free space to match the bass enclosure. If you separate the cabinets and place the small enclosure near the wall, then things start to approach balance. This is that age old full range speaker issue; the location in the room for best low bass almost never is the best location for flat response for everything else.

Magnepan .7 in the same room are not at all lean sounding, for comparison.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

As does the PMC on the ground floor. Horrendous.

PMC review coming up in May issue of Stereophile.

 

[Soniclife]

PMC review coming up in May issue of Stereophile.

Which model?

 

[Koeitje]

I had Twenty.22's and those created some weird port noise for certain low frequency tones, was really odd.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Which model?

PMC fact.8 signature

 

[Soniclife]

PMC fact.8 signature

I'll be interested to see if they still have far too much treble, and lean bass, like the old ones.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I'll be interested to see if they still have far too much treble, and lean bass, like the old ones.

I did review an "old one" in 2005: https://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/998pmc/index.html

 

[Soniclife]

I did review an "old one" in 2005: https://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/998pmc/index.html

That takes me to a different pmc speaker.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

That takes me to a different pmc speaker.

Yes. That's why when I said: "I did review an "old one" in 2005: https://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/998pmc/index.html," the term "old one" referred to a different model.

 

[gfx_1]

here some measurements of their 88000€(!) single driver top models which even got the highest ever points (!!!) in the German magazine AUDIO

German audio magazines award the points according to price. Read a couple of stereoplay magazines in the past. If two are about the same the most advertised wins.