Expensive headphones that sound bad

[Blujackaal]

Listening to stereo mixes over headphones is so unnatural to begin with it's no wonder people have such widely diverging opinions.

That why DSP/Crossfeed is a must, It's unnatural because 90% of music is targeted for speakers. This is why i don't get the Senn HD800 hype, When the ER4/HD600 can be just as 3D with carefully set up profile. Which is why I'm aiming for the ER4B as my next upgrade.

 

[maverickronin]

That why DSP/Crossfeed is a must, It's unnatural because 90% of music is targeted for speakers.

Totally agree with that. Not sure why so few other do...

This is why i don't get the Senn HD800 hype, When the ER4/HD600 can be just as 3D with carefully set up profile.

Not as much with this though. Basic crossfeed is a must, but that's at least easy to implement latency free in an analog circuit. If your sources aren't just straight music through a player with a good plugin structure like Jriver or foobar (eg. videos and games) then it gets a lot harder to make it work without lag or dropouts. I basically gave up on it and got an RME ADI-2 DAC and use its crossfeed and EQ for though other sources. I use TB Isone through foobar for straight music.

The fact that the HD800 includes so much of your pinna transfer function does have an advantage in that situation. IME it has the best forward projection of any anything I've ever heard just using basic crossfeed. OTOH, even the new "S" version still needs mods and/or EQ even after you've spent so much money on it.

I don't own one but keep thinking I should snag a used one. Mostly for the comfort though. My entry level Stax Lambda's plus TB Isone throw a better soundstage.

 

[Jimbob54]

Totally agree with that. Not sure why so few other do...



Not as much with this though. Basic crossfeed is a must, but that's at least easy to implement latency free in an analog circuit. If your sources aren't just straight music through a player with a good plugin structure like Jriver or foobar (eg. videos and games) then it gets a lot harder to make it work without lag or dropouts. I basically gave up on it and got an RME ADI-2 DAC and use its crossfeed and EQ for though other sources. I use TB Isone through foobar for straight music.

The fact that the HD800 includes so much of your pinna transfer function does have an advantage in that situation. IME it has the best forward projection of any anything I've ever heard just using basic crossfeed. OTOH, even the new "S" version still needs mods and/or EQ even after you've spent so much money on it.

I don't own one but keep thinking I should snag a used one. Mostly for the comfort though. My entry level Stax Lambda's plus TB Isone throw a better soundstage.

Going to experiment with crossfeed on top of existing eq for my hd800 on the back of this. No idea how it's measured /implemented. Any suggested amount /setting?

 

[Patrick1958]

Going to experiment with crossfeed on top of existing eq for my hd800 on the back of this. No idea how it's measured /implemented. Any suggested amount /setting?

In JRmc set it to subtle, in foobar with crossfeed plugin amount to 25 %. Works best for me. Higher settings result in unnatural sound (for me).

 

[Jimbob54]

In JRmc set it to subtle, in foobar with crossfeed plugin amount to 25 %. Works best for me. Higher settings result in unnatural sound (for me).

Yes, figured start gentle. Cheers

 

[Blujackaal]

Not as much with this though. Basic crossfeed is a must, but that's at least easy to implement latency free in an analog circuit. If your sources aren't just straight music through a player with a good plugin structure like Jriver or foobar (eg. videos and games) then it gets a lot harder to make it work without lag or dropouts. I basically gave up on it and got an RME ADI-2 DAC and use its crossfeed and EQ for though other sources. I use TB Isone through foobar for straight music.

The fact that the HD800 includes so much of your pinna transfer function does have an advantage in that situation. IME it has the best forward projection of any anything I've ever heard just using basic crossfeed. OTOH, even the new "S" version still needs mods and/or EQ even after you've spent so much money on it.

I don't own one but keep thinking I should snag a used one. Mostly for the comfort though. My entry level Stax Lambda's plus TB Isone throw a better soundstage.

Yeah it still a hassle for non music stuff, The HD800 is funny though despite limitions it still puts up a fight on sounding 3D. I find it funny how many reviews/impressions have bits that harshly say "Still a headphone..." while refusing to try DSP/Crossfeed?.

Totally agree with that. Not sure why so few other do...

Because speakers fans live in a bubble where using DSP to fix Soundstage/Depth in headphones is wrong, Despite being okay with using DSP/EQ fix room artifacts. While others just try it with no effort to set it up properly just assume its a gimmick.

I've had one speaker fan at Head fi do that, Like saying he tried binaural audio on his speakers instead of trying it on headphones with a custom profile. When he got offended i said binaural audio >>> surround sound/2.1 stereo.

 

[Earfonia]

OOT from this topic, The Creative SXFi Amp is actually pretty good in simulating speaker sound on IEMs and headphones. Recent firmware upgrade improves the speaker simulation, better than when it first launched. And it doesn't cost much.

 

[maverickronin]

OOT from this topic, The Creative SXFi Amp is actually pretty good in simulating speaker sound on IEMs and headphones. Recent firmware upgrade improves the speaker simulation, better than when it first launched. And it doesn't cost much.

Looked promising until I saw this...

 

[direstraitsfan98]

Because speakers fans live in a bubble where using DSP to fix Soundstage/Depth in headphones is wrong, Despite being okay with using DSP/EQ fix room artifacts. While others just try it with no effort to set it up properly just assume its a gimmick.

I've had one speaker fan at Head fi do that, Like saying he tried binaural audio on his speakers instead of trying it on headphones with a custom profile. When he got offended i said binaural audio >>> surround sound/2.1 stereo.

This is ASR, not head-fi. You'd do well to remember that... most of our speaker guys own dedicated state of the art speaker systems and have been doing it for many years. The average "speaker fan" on head-fi has been a headphone user who gingerly stepped their foot into the speaker waters, probably reluctantly, so he could write one or two articles or posts, collect his daily quota of upvotes, and slink away back to his headphones. Seen it time, and time again, there. It's a very strange mentality that only seems to exist on head-fi. Like a unspoken general disdain of speakers. Don't really know how to explain it.

 

[maverickronin]

Because speakers fans live in a bubble where using DSP to fix Soundstage/Depth in headphones is wrong, Despite being okay with using DSP/EQ fix room artifacts. While others just try it with no effort to set it up properly just assume its a gimmick.

I've had one speaker fan at Head fi do that, Like saying he tried binaural audio on his speakers instead of trying it on headphones with a custom profile. When he got offended i said binaural audio >>> surround sound/2.1 stereo.

This is ASR, not head-fi. You'd do well to remember that... most of our speaker guys own dedicated state of the art speaker systems and have been doing it for many years. The average "speaker fan" on head-fi has been a headphone user who gingerly stepped their foot into the speaker waters, probably reluctantly, so he could write one or two articles or posts, collect his daily quota of upvotes, and slink away back to his headphones. Seen it time, and time again, there. It's a very strange mentality that only seems to exist on head-fi. Like a unspoken general disdain of speakers. Don't really know how to explain it.

AFIK, none of the other headphone guys here use crossfeed or HRTF DSPs either, which I think is extra weird because this isn't Head-fi...

Amir never measures or makes subjective reports about crossfeed on any DAC/amp that has it and others rarely ask about it.

Solderdude does have a crossfeed module for his Kameleon but I don't think I've ever seen him mention it here or recommend it. I only know about it from browsing his site.

 

[direstraitsfan98]

AFIK, none of the other headphone guys here use crossfeed or HRTF DSPs either, which I think is extra weird because this isn't Head-fi...

Amir never measures or makes subjective reports about crossfeed on any DAC/amp that has it and others rarely ask about it.

Solderdude does have a crossfeed module for his Kameleon but I don't think I've ever seen him mention it here or recommend it. I only know about it from browsing his site.

My McIntosh preamp has this nifty headphone thing called HXD, I definitely need to try it. Whenever a reviewer mentions it in a McIntosh product review video or written review, they just spew out the manufactures info about it.

When I finally get around to acquiring a pair of HD600 later this year can definitely report on what I hear.

 

[maverickronin]

Back on topic.

Final Audio Lab II

The ultimate "girl and guitar" design!

Yes, they are IEMs. No, they don't come with any tips and no, you're not supposed to add any yourself.

In my ears they sound kind of like someone disconnected the woofer and tweeter from a 3-way. Apparently you can get actual bass out of them if you manage to get a seal.

 

[Jimbob54]

Back on topic.

Final Audio Lab II

The ultimate "girl and guitar" design!

Yes, they are IEMs. No, they don't come with any tips and no, you're not supposed to add any yourself.

In my ears they sound kind of like someone disconnected the woofer and tweeter from a 3-way. Apparently you can get actual bass out of them if you manage to get a seal.

They do another with the same shape but gold /brass. Piano forte or similar. Zero bass apparently

 

[maverickronin]

They do another with the same shape but gold /brass. Piano forte or similar. Zero bass apparently

Yep. No seal, no bass.

And they design them that way on purpose.

 

[richard12511]

This is ASR, not head-fi. You'd do well to remember that... most of our speaker guys own dedicated state of the art speaker systems and have been doing it for many years. The average "speaker fan" on head-fi has been a headphone user who gingerly stepped their foot into the speaker waters, probably reluctantly, so he could write one or two articles or posts, collect his daily quota of upvotes, and slink away back to his headphones. Seen it time, and time again, there. It's a very strange mentality that only seems to exist on head-fi. Like a unspoken general disdain of speakers. Don't really know how to explain it.

I think both have their place. I own several stereo systems as well as HD800, HD650, HD600 and a few IEMs. I use the loudspeakers when I want an uncompromised audio experience, and I don't care about disturbing neighbors. Headphones are great when I want decent volume, but I don't want to disturb those around me(in public, at work, etc.) I honestly enjoy both, and I don't get the hate from one side to the other.

 

[JediMa]

Grado SR80... creepy harsh sound, Koss Porta Pro Classic

 

[MRC01]

... Amir never measures or makes subjective reports about crossfeed on any DAC/amp that has it and others rarely ask about it. ...

I've noticed the same and assume it's because Amir prefers to be as objective as possible and post measurements. Subjective impressions are a dime a dozen, you can get them in 1,000 other places. Consistent detailed measurements are one of the things that differentiate ASR. Yet the many different kinds of crossfeed are hard to measure. They sound quite different, so I'm sure those differences could be measured, but I can see at least 2 challenges with measuring them:

1. It's not obvious exactly what kind of measurements would best highlight the differences. Sure we could come up with a list, but it would take some trial & error experimentation to come up with which measurements that capture and highlight the differences of different crossfeed implementations.

2. Assume we could solve (1), it's not clear what measurement targets or values would be ideal. That is, what is "better" or closer to the "truth"? Perception of stereo image is highly subjective, more subjective than perception of other aspects like frequency response or noise.

 

[muslhead]

audeze lcd4z. they dont sound bad just not good for their $3k price tag

 

[Gabs]

Audeze, in general.

 

[Blujackaal]

Audeze is weird their LCD 1/isine 10 can bury their flagships with EQ. But on Reddit/other places i get skeptic quick when they give them 9 or 10s un EQ'd.