Exciting news from Onkyo and Pioneer: TX-RZ70/ VSX-LX705, TX-RZ9/VSX-LX905 = Auro 3D + DLBC!

[Miker 1102]

I have yet to hear an upmixer that satisfies me as well as the Logic7 used to in the Lexicon DC1 and MC1 processors.... (which I parted ways with around 2008....)

But I have not yet settled in with my new Integra DRX 3.4 - nor have I had time to experiment with the different upmixing options and settings...

I was surprise with how good Dolby Surround sounded with music a couple of days back - but it varies from album to album... whereas I don't recall Logic7 being quite as variable in its response.

My issue is really basic. I feel like a 1500 dolla avr wirh a decent transparent dac should be able to offer a sound filed that allows me to enjoy my music. What do other people use wirh these Rz 50s or I tegera when listening to music?

 

[dlaloum]

I started a seperate thread discussing where Upmixers are up to... and what is best with current ones...

Upmixing - where are we at? Have people compared upmixers?

So, in the early days of surround, I had a Lexicon DC1 and then an MC1... These used Logic7 which did a fantastic job of upmixing stereo Dolby Surround to 5.1 or 7.1 channels... Then there was Dolby's own PLII - variable, but frequently OK ... varied dramatically with different implementations...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[valerianf]

"I feel like a 1500 dollar avr wirh a decent transparent dac should be able to offer a sound filed that allows me to enjoy my music"
I fully agree with this statement.
During 7 years I stopped listening music because I was not satisfied with the sound quality.
But it was a $450 Yamaha AVR.
Finally with a lot of tuning, including the crossover of the speakers, I am starting again to enjoy music.

No way that I buy a new Onkyo/Pioneer/Integra Avr if there is no Dsp mode suitable for music.
Any feedback from the lucky ones that got the first deliveries?

 

[Rottmannash]

My issue is really basic. I feel like a 1500 dolla avr wirh a decent transparent dac should be able to offer a sound filed that allows me to enjoy my music. What do other people use wirh these Rz 50s or I tegera when listening to music?

I have a separate system (Node 2i>Freya+>VTV Purifi>F208's+Monolith 10 THX sub) for 2 channel. But I'm not having the issue with the surrounds being softer than usual. Of course I'm powering my rear surrounds w/ a Buckeye amp so not hurting for power. Is the AVR powering all your speakers? And how many speakers are you powering?

 

[dlaloum]

"I feel like a 1500 dollar avr wirh a decent transparent dac should be able to offer a sound filed that allows me to enjoy my music"
I fully agree with this statement.
During 7 years I stopped listening music because I was not satisfied with the sound quality.
But it was a $450 Yamaha AVR.
Finally with a lot of tuning, including the crossover of the speakers, I am starting again to enjoy music.

No way that I buy a new Onkyo/Pioneer/Integra Avr if there is no Dsp mode suitable for music.
Any feedback from the lucky ones that got the first deliveries?

I found myself starting to listen to Music again, after a long Hiatus.... with the new Integra 3.4 - currently finding Dolby Surround works well....

 

[MASKINEN]

My issue is really basic. I feel like a 1500 dolla avr wirh a decent transparent dac should be able to offer a sound filed that allows me to enjoy my music. What do other people use wirh these Rz 50s or I tegera when listening to music?

Are you referring to the upmixing music in the Onkyo or 2 channel music playback? Upmix will always sound worse in my opinion since music is mostly recorded in 2 channel. Native multi channel music should sound good though.

 

[dlaloum]

Are the top Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer models Class AB (as per traditional Onkyo practice) or Class D?

I went back to take a look at the previous TOTL model TX-RZ3100.... all it says about the power amps is "Digital Amplifier" - what exactly does that mean? (Class D is not digital!)

I found the Service Manual at

Elektrotanya for electronics experts

Electronics forum for electronics experts to repair defective appliance.

elektrotanya.com

This is also applicable to its related Integra and Pioneer siblings....

Can someone with more electronics knowhow that I have, take a look at the power amp board schematics and tell me what exactly these are?

They do claim "High current capability" and the specs do include a rating for 3 ohm (although it is a momentary rating, not a continuous one)

It would not be surprising to find this as the power amp for the new TOTL flagship models...

 

[Rottmannash]

Are the top Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer models Class AB (as per traditional Onkyo practice) or Class D?

I went back to take a look at the previous TOTL model TX-RZ3100.... all it says about the power amps is "Digital Amplifier" - what exactly does that mean? (Class D is not digital!)

I found the Service Manual at

Elektrotanya for electronics experts

Electronics forum for electronics experts to repair defective appliance.

elektrotanya.com

This is also applicable to its related Integra and Pioneer siblings....

Can someone with more electronics knowhow that I have, take a look at the power amp board schematics and tell me what exactly these are?

They do claim "High current capability" and the specs do include a rating for 3 ohm (although it is a momentary rating, not a continuous one)

It would not be surprising to find this as the power amp for the new TOTL flagship models...

AFAIK the Onkyos are all A/B but can't be certain. I believe someone else mentioned some of the Pioneer models used Class D amps but that was a few years ago?

 

[valerianf]

Will these new Avr really come to the market?
They are really needed as the current models seem having a really weak power section.

 

[dlaloum]

AFAIK the Onkyos are all A/B but can't be certain. I believe someone else mentioned some of the Pioneer models used Class D amps but that was a few years ago?

There used to be a time when all the SC prefix Pioneers were Class-D (initially using ICE modules I believe)...

But then post the merger the, the TOTL chassis across the three brands became almost identical...

And looking at the Service manual for the TX-RZ3100....

The Power amp circuit board is BACLD-2095, and in the parts listing it is described as: " ClassD amplifier circuit pc board AS"

It would be nice if someone more knowledgeable than me in Class D circuitry, could take a look at that circuit board diagram (p79, 80?).

Did Onkyo develop their own class D amps?, did they licence someone elses?

And if the upcoming TOTL models keep the old chassis, they may well keep this entire chunk of circuitry intact/as-is...

It is a linear PSU with a ClassD power amp?

 

[dlaloum]

Will these new Avr really come to the market?
They are really needed as the current models seem having a really weak power section.

Clearly they were planning to bring them to market...

But if you look at the preceding model, the DAC's are AKM 4490.... the factory that built those (DAC's), burned down.

Denon/Marantz redesigned and re-released their AVR's using alternate DAC's... Onkyo, may be planning the same - but given their production difficulties, they may have decided to wait for AKM to get their production line running again - which is due in 3Qtr 2022... by the time the Onkyo factory gets the parts, builds stuff, and then ships them out, we will be in early 2023.

Who knows - they may have decided to go for a redesign....

 

[Sal1950]

I found myself starting to listen to Music again, after a long Hiatus.... with the new Integra 3.4 - currently finding Dolby Surround works well....

Be sure to enable "center spread" in the Dolby Surround options for best frontal soundstaging when upmixing 2ch stereo sources.

 

[Sal1950]

Who knows - they may have decided to go for a redesign....

IIRC, AKM has said the older DAC chips will all be updated with newer models making redesigns for everyone necessary.

 

[dlaloum]

Be sure to enable "center spread" in the Dolby Surround options for best frontal soundstaging when upmixing 2ch stereo sources.

I will try that...

 

[dlaloum]

I will try that...

Actually on reviewing my setting, I had already turned that on! - maybe that's why it was sounding pretty good?

 

[dlaloum]

Here is the blurb from the description of the Integra DRX-R1 flagship AVR:

Advanced Hybrid Digital Amplifier Design​

Modern Design Meets Legendary Performance. Integra amplifier designs have always been known for delivering voluminous loads of current via massive, oversized power supply sections -providing precise speaker control and dynamics. The DRX-R1 combines this legendary performance with today’s ultra-efficient digital output stages, proprietary filtering technologies, and oversized low pass filter coils- resulting in stunning audio clarity, accuracy and musicality- across the entire audio output range.

 

[ivo.f.doma]

Many people incorrectly refer to Class D as a digital amplifier. Class D is an analog amplifier. "D" was assigned to this type of amplifier only as another letter in the alphabet when designating amplifier classes, such as "A", "B" and later, after class D, also class "H", etc. Of course, many have adapted it. D = digital, H = hybrid ...

 

[Sal1950]

Many people incorrectly refer to Class D as a digital amplifier. Class D is an analog amplifier. "D" was assigned to this type of amplifier only as another letter in the alphabet when designating amplifier classes, such as "A", "B" and later, after class D, also class "H", etc. Of course, many have adapted it. D = digital, H = hybrid ...

There is also a Class C used primarily in RF amplification..

 

[Sancus]

Every time I see this thread unread I think, oh maybe there is some news about these AVRs and every time I am disappointed.

 

[Dougey_Jones]

Any likelihood that the RZ50 will be upgradeable via firmware to include DLBC if you're willing to pay for the license?