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Ex-subjectivists on ASR

Are you a former subjectivist? What are you now? (See post for explanations)

  • Yes

    Votes: 84 35.3%
  • No

    Votes: 80 33.6%
  • Subjectivist

    Votes: 5 2.1%
  • Soft / moderate objectivist

    Votes: 84 35.3%
  • Objectivist

    Votes: 116 48.7%

  • Total voters
    238

restorer-john

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Audio devices can be seen in this way: They embody the history, intentions, spirit and passion of their creators.

Absolutely. It can be seen and felt with HiFi gear. I see all the passion and care inside the vintage gear I restore, repair and rebuild.

But some unfortunate people just don't 'get' it, do they?

This is a letter posted to AudioKarma many years ago (not by me). I saved it for prosperity.
scan737.jpg


The second page says it all.
scan738.jpg
 

Travis

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
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562
I like to remind my glycobiology students that the mean isn't always the best way to describe a collection of data, by showing them a photo of our erstwhile cat, Zappa. Zappa was grey on the average.
Or, when someone says “for the average person” and then some result/conclusion.

The “average person” is Chinese and female.
 

mhardy6647

Grand Contributor
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Isn't that the mean person?
Average = mean
Not to be confused with median nor mode.

Average can be a useful summary statistic for a normally distributed population. Not great when it's skewed (e.g., housing prices, salaries).
 

Doodski

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Absolutely. It can be seen and felt with HiFi gear. I see all the passion and care inside the vintage gear I restore, repair and rebuild.

But some unfortunate people just don't 'get' it, do they?

This is a letter posted to AudioKarma many years ago (not by me). I saved it for prosperity.
View attachment 289684

The second page says it all.
View attachment 289685
KapoW! Right on the noggin! That's the way some peeps do stuff...
 

mhardy6647

Grand Contributor
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Is it a JVC Speaker?
RCA LC-1A coaxial. A very fine loudspeaker.
image-asset.jpeg

image-asset.jpeg



JVC (Japan Victor Corp. ;) ) made LC-1A woofer style woofers, for whatever reason, back in the old days :)

bla-60.JPG

source: https://audio-heritage.jp/VICTOR/Speaker/index.html

The Four Moptops (i.e., the Four Lads from Liverpool) listened to themselves on Altec Duplexes, but Elvis listened to himself on an LC-1A (mono). :)

1685668076312.png

source: http://www.scottymoore.net/RCASpkr.html

I make due with Duplexes 'cause I cannot afford (i.e., cannot rationalize the cost of) a pair of LC-1As. ;)
 
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DMill

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There needs to be a fourth choice:


- I am an objectivist with subjective tendencies. You believe that anything that cannot be measured is not audible. Knowing this you still choose some components (knowing how they measure) based upon subjective preference.

Martin
I tend to agree. The first time I heard “In the Mood” by Robert Plant driving to the Keys from Ft. Lauderdale on a friends Nakamichi tape deck I was blown away. We were very stoned and I was 17. I still remember the drum crash in that song almost 30 years later as being what music should sound like. It was perfect because I subjectively “believed” it was. Now I have much better objective equipment and “know” it sounds perfect… or close to it. But I damn sure miss the way that sounded.

EDIT I suppose you can‘t get back to believing once you know the truth.
 

Axo1989

Major Contributor
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Jan 9, 2022
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Location
Sydney
Average = mean
Not to be confused with median nor mode.

Average can be a useful summary statistic for a normally distributed population. Not great when it's skewed (e.g., housing prices, salaries).

Yes, but that was a perhaps-too-cryptic joke about recent AUKUS demonisation of China. I did forget the smiley, mea culpa.
 

Zensō

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 11, 2020
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Location
California
I tend to agree. The first time I heard “In the Mood” by Robert Plant driving to the Keys from Ft. Lauderdale on a friends Nakamichi tape deck I was blown away. We were very stoned and I was 17. I still remember the drum crash in that song almost 30 years later as being what music should sound like. It was perfect because I subjectively “believed” it was. Now I have much better objective equipment and “know” it sounds perfect… or close to it. But I damn sure miss the way that sounded.

EDIT I suppose you can‘t get back to believing once you know the truth.
Very few things in life are as good as they were when we were 17 and stoned. ;)
 

pablolie

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bay area, ca
I have always tended towards objectivist views in audio. Was glad to let go of vinyl at the time (a pretty obvious sign if you lived through that transition).
That said, I also think measurements will eventually
Very few things in life are as good as they were when we were 17 and stoned. ;)
nothing is better than that
 

JeffS7444

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Ok. But then how come "a Genelec Monitor has no soul". Does it not also "embody the history, intentions, spirit and passion of [its] creators"? And further, how could such a question be a matter of opinion as opposed to one of fact?
Value it as a treasure, and the longer you keep it, the more "soul" it will have ;)

While I love the letter that @restorer-john has posted in #162 (imagine someone at a large company taking the time to craft such a thoughtful response to a customer inquiry!), when I imagine a Pioneer assembly line in July 1962, I imagine stifling heat, weary-looking workers, and American buyers looking dubiously at "Made in Japan", with some justification. I'd think that Pioneer would have had far less panache in the eyes of American buyers versus say, a Fisher 400. And while CAD wasn't a thing then, it likely was designed by a team of engineers, and the details were worked out at the drafting table.
 

computer-audiophile

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Germany
I love the letter that @restorer-john has posted in #162
Yes, this is a beautiful story that really touches me. I could also tell you about similar experiences that fill the topic of audio technology with life (or soul) for me, and have even led to personal friendships and acquaintances in different countries. This is all totally subjective, of course.
 

raif71

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 7, 2019
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Absolutely. It can be seen and felt with HiFi gear. I see all the passion and care inside the vintage gear I restore, repair and rebuild.

But some unfortunate people just don't 'get' it, do they?

This is a letter posted to AudioKarma many years ago (not by me). I saved it for prosperity.
View attachment 289684

The second page says it all.
View attachment 289685
Hmm...maybe they're imagining you as this bender-san :)
1685700533323.jpeg
 

Réidh

Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2022
Messages
8
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14
Location
Canada
Is one a half-wit if it depends on the device in use?

Where my table radio sits the interesting sound it makes satisfies such that I feel no pressure to take the measure of it.

However the availability of respectably gathered test results is valuable to be sure;
certainly where investing too much in many other pieces of audio equipment is symptomatic of questionable audiophile leanings more than any real interest in music - subjective or otherwise.

I mean the sobering effect of realizing there is a somewhat mysterious lack of correlation between the objective consideration and the subjective experience might encourage one to take it easy from one perspective.

Honestly when listening to my own creations of music I want to say it is better to lean towards you know what.
 

DMill

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I'd be blown away if I witnessed anyone driving anywhere on a Nakamichi tape deck.
Indeed they made much better tape decks than gas powered engines. :)
 

computer-audiophile

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Indeed they made much better tape decks than gas powered engines. :)

I remember being very proud of my Nakamichi 700 Tri Tracer. Every recording process began with the adjustment of the tape run alignment. I had to turn an adjustment screw back and forth until two LEDs blinked evenly, then it was right. New tape types had to be calibrated and so on. The recording level meters were also not to be left out of sight.

My partner at the time made fun of it, she said the device looked like a toaster. I found the design very noble and felt a little offended. ;)

Nakamichi_700-Prospekt-1.jpg
 
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mhardy6647

Grand Contributor
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The 700 and the 1000 were incredibly nice cassette decks, especially for their time. There was literally nothing better performing on the cassette deck market (even from Tandberg) at the time. ;)
 

Blumlein 88

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I'd be blown away if I witnessed anyone driving anywhere on a Nakamichi tape deck.
Nakamichi made car decks just as good as the home models. Had some excellent tuners in the head unit too.
 
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