Eve SC205s Vs. Kali Audio IN-5s ?

[Jungle Child]

Still on the market for 5" monitors that suits all in-house studio needs, in a small room. As my last post suggested, something that has clarity in all freq. ranges + an accurate and tight bass response that is superior for editing / mixing and mastering purposes in a home studio.


Has anyone compared the two?

Which one would you guys prefer?

 

[AurekV]

I'm not aware of any real off-axis measurements of the SC205s, and based on their design and the inconsistency that shows up in their one off-axis (I think 30 degrees) measurement of the speaker through the crossover point I would guess that they aren't anything great. The IN-5s are a known good design with comprehensive NFS measurements and would be one of my top choices for 5" powered speakers especially for the price.

Accurate bass is mostly a matter of speaker/sub placement, EQ, LF extension and the distortion performance of a given speaker at low frequencies. I don't think that if you want good bass extension and distortion performance you will be able to get that out of a 5" speaker unless you don't need a great deal of extension for whatever you're mixing and can benefit from boundary reinforcement being near a wall.

Typically for good bass you will need EQ, and a 7" or larger speaker. Or a sub (and EQ) with 4 or 5" speakers. If you need to cover more then just one spot then you need two subwoofers arranged according to Harman research.

 

[nahuel]

I have not heard the Kalis...

I've heard Eve's and i've got sc307s. My mixes translate really well, i can tell you that. And i really enjoy listening to music with them in my small 3.3m x 2.7 room with some acoustic treatment. I believe the Eve's will deliver less distortion at higher spl. My choice would be Eves if i'd like to add their TS sub afterwards, which are really good also. If not, maybe the IN5 being a 3 way could be a good choice for what i see on this site and other reviewers.

Hope that soon ASR will review Eve Audio products!

 

[nahuel]

I've measured my sc307 off axis in my room and dispersion, both horizontal and vertical, remains pretty consistent. Again, just some acoustic treatment, but the in room energy in the MF and HF remains ok to my measurements and to my ears.

 

[stevenswall]

The Eve Audio SC305 goes to 117 max SPL per pair. The 205 goes to 111 per pair.

The IN-5 goes to 121 dB max SPL per pair... About twice as loud.

I don't think the even has any measured/known advantages. Ribbon tweeters can be good for limiting the wonky vertical dispersion, but you're always going to have lobes from what I've seen from the measurements or listened to with non-coaxial multi-way designs.

If you can fit it, there's no reason no to get the IN-8 V2. It has even more headroom and bass response, though the IN-5 is surprisingly close.

 

[oivavoi]

Totally subjective, but I've really loved the SC-205 the three times I've listened to them! Never heard the Kalis

 

[AurekV]

I've measured my sc307 off axis in my room and dispersion, both horizontal and vertical, remains pretty consistent. Again, just some acoustic treatment, but the in room energy in the MF and HF remains ok to my measurements and to my ears.

The SC307s may have good subjective performance in nesrfield applications with early reflections absorbed, but there is no way their objective performance is good when used horizontally. The horizontal alignment of the midrange and tweeted to each other will cause deep nulls off-axis like what you see in the vertical off-axis response of a traditional speaker design. You can see the beginning of the null in their provided measurements. So it's impossible that off-axis response remains consistent in the horizontal plane if the speaker is arranged horizontally. They may have been able to ameliorate this effect somewhat using higher order crossovers through DSP but that doesn't eliminate it.

It is also likely that they have directivity inconsistencies through the crossover because of the size of ribbon tweeter without a waveguide and 6.5" midwoofer they are using. So even if you were to stand them up, directivity would be compromised.

This does not mean that their speakers are all poor objective performers. I would be interested to see measurements of one of Eve's larger true 3-way models like the SC3070.

 

[nahuel]

The SC307s may have good subjective performance in nesrfield applications with early reflections absorbed, but there is no way their objective performance is good when used horizontally. The horizontal alignment of the midrange and tweeted to each other will cause deep nulls off-axis like what you see in the vertical off-axis response of a traditional speaker design. You can see the beginning of the null in their provided measurements. So it's impossible that off-axis response remains consistent in the horizontal plane if the speaker is arranged horizontally. They may have been able to ameliorate this effect somewhat using higher order crossovers through DSP but that doesn't eliminate it.

It is also likely that they have directivity inconsistencies through the crossover because of the size of ribbon tweeter without a waveguide and 6.5" midwoofer they are using. So even if you were to stand them up, directivity would be compromised.

This does not mean that their speakers are all poor objective performers. I would be interested to see measurements of one of Eve's larger true 3-way models like the SC3070.

Before measuring them, i did placed them vertically and that's the way i like to use them since day one. Forgot to mention it, my bad. I did not like to have them that close when placed horizontal, stereo image seemed too big on each side, impressive but odd. Vertical placement feels more natural. I believe that at least at a 45 degree angle i can't see odd dips in my measurements, just treble roll off. Maybe that's not enough?

I do have acoustic treatment behind the speakers, bass traps and regular absorbtion, and on my back wall, same thing. Nothing on side walls or ceiling yet (need to build modular absorbtion). I'm 1m away from the speakers and use them around 70/85dB spl.

I used the DSP included and lowered LF and HF to have more mid presence. They give a very similar midrange (300/400 to 2/3k) than my Focal CMS40. I do have a single mixcube, but it does its own thing, like a good old radio.

Sorry i can't provide more objective information. I'm starting to read how to make quasi anechoic measurements with what i have.

 

[nahuel]

The Eve Audio SC305 goes to 117 max SPL per pair. The 205 goes to 111 per pair.

The IN-5 goes to 121 dB max SPL per pair... About twice as loud.

I don't think the even has any measured/known advantages. Ribbon tweeters can be good for limiting the wonky vertical dispersion, but you're always going to have lobes from what I've seen from the measurements or listened to with non-coaxial multi-way designs.

If you can fit it, there's no reason no to get the IN-8 V2. It has even more headroom and bass response, though the IN-5 is surprisingly close.

I've seen the Kali IN8 measurements here, and they seem to have greater overall distortion than any of the Eve Audio speakers. Maybe it's not audible, but i guess it is... I believe the Kalis will sound awful at that max spl, but no one would use such small units that loud anyway.

From the review of the IN8 on this site:

• As for SPL levels, these are marketed as a near/mid-field speaker. My data shows the limiter kicking in somewhere above 96dB @ 1m. I had the output up to about 100dB at 1 meter to stress test with some Linkin Park and there were no mechanical issues that I could hear. I’d say that you could probably use these in the midfield in the lower 90’s pretty well but above that would be pushing it. Realistically, you shouldn’t be mixing music (or listening) above the 85dB range for long periods anyway. I do not know that I would recommend these for high volume listening more than 3 meters but for most volume levels and/or closer distances, a pair of these should be more than enough to satisfy your needs.

Kali Audio IN-8v2 (Second Wave) 3-Way Studio Monitor Review

Copy/paste from my site. Review may not translate from my site so here is the link to the full review on my site: https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/kali_in-8v2/ Kali Audio IN-8v2 (Second Wave) 3-Way Studio Monitor Review Saturday, Jun 26, 2021 Foreword / YouTube Video Review...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[nahuel]

Great review of the IN-5

Kali IN-5 Studio Monitor Review

Copied from my website so some of the formatting may not transfer very well. You're welcome to read the review there, in that case: https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/kali_in-5/ Kali Audio IN-5 3-Way Studio Monitor Review Wednesday, Apr 14, 2021 Foreword / YouTube Video Review...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[AurekV]

Before measuring them, i did placed them vertically and that's the way i like to use them since day one. Forgot to mention it, my bad. I did not like to have them that close when placed horizontal, stereo image seemed too big on each side, impressive but odd. Vertical placement feels more natural. I believe that at least at a 45 degree angle i can't see odd dips in my measurements, just treble roll off. Maybe that's not enough?

I do have acoustic treatment behind the speakers, bass traps and regular absorbtion, and on my back wall, same thing. Nothing on side walls or ceiling yet (need to build modular absorbtion). I'm 1m away from the speakers and use them around 70/85dB spl.

I used the DSP included and lowered LF and HF to have more mid presence. They give a very similar midrange (300/400 to 2/3k) than my Focal CMS40. I do have a single mixcube, but it does its own thing, like a good old radio.

Sorry i can't provide more objective information. I'm starting to read how to make quasi anechoic measurements with what i have.

Yeah, you may need to measure at more than 45 degrees off-axis horizontally to see much, especially if your measurements aren't gated, there are other things nearby the speaker or you don't have a long enough gate for usable resolution down to like 1.2 kHz.

I'm happy that you're using them vertically, they probably don't have good directivity, but they will be much better in that orientation. The impact of the directivity will also be less because you are so close and the direct sound is much louder relatively. I get pretty irritated when manufacturers advertise speakers to be used in a way that substantially harms their performance for no reason.

Ceiling absorption makes a lot sense with anything but a coaxial. And side wall (early reflection especially) absorption is generally regarded as a good idea when speakers have problems with smooth directivity, so I would suggest that.

 

[nahuel]

What i can say from experience is that mixes translate, they are not midrange focused (like focal, i use cms40) but you can work it with no problems, bass response is tight and more than enough. Like a review from resolution magazine says, it's like a hifi speaker with midrange detail (i'll attach it, it has measurements). Reverb tails/depth is always there.

That is why i think the sc205s plus Eve sub would perform great for nearfield mixing/home mastering. Eve's go less than +/-3dB or less on axis. In a treated room as nearfields they should perform well. The Kalis have better dispersion but on axis the seem less flat. If not Eve's, i'd go with Neumann KHs or Genelec 8000s. Maybe used 8030s?

 

[AurekV]

What i can say from experience is that mixes translate, they are not midrange focused (like focal, i use cms40) but you can work it with no problems, bass response is tight and more than enough. Like a review from resolution magazine says, it's like a hifi speaker with midrange detail (i'll attach it, it has measurements). Reverb tails/depth is always there.

That is why i think the sc205s plus Eve sub would perform great for nearfield mixing/home mastering. Eve's go less than +/-3dB or less on axis. In a treated room as nearfields they should perform well. The Kalis have better dispersion but on axis the seem less flat. If not Eve's, i'd go with Neumann KHs or Genelec 8000s. Maybe used 8030s?

I believe Eve uses 1/6 Oct smoothing, so it's not so easily comparable to the higher resolution coming out of Erin's NFS. It is also generally known that 1st party mesurements give a flatter on-axis response because the equalization/crossover was designed using the measurement system, the more filters a speaker has in it's crossover the more relevant this becomes. The IN-5 also has the peak past like 13 kHz which looks real bad, but that sort of thing is not known to be audible much at all given how poor our hearing is in that range.

 

[nahuel]

I believe Eve uses 1/6 Oct smoothing, so it's not so easily comparable to the higher resolution coming out of Erin's NFS. It is also generally known that 1st party mesurements give a flatter on-axis response because the equalization/crossover was designed using the measurement system, the more filters a speaker has in it's crossover the more relevant this becomes. The IN-5 also has the peak past like 13 kHz which looks real bad, but that sort of thing is not known to be audible much at all given how poor our hearing is in that range.

I did attach a review from Keith Holland, it's +/-2dB, altough looks bumpier than the one on the Eve Audio site. To me, these speakers just get the job done, and are great just to listen to. I would need to A/B with the Kalis, but i won't discard the Eves for objective measurements, i guess that is my point. To me they work just fine for mix/master! Great overall balance/presentation maybe.