EV Eliminator living room amplifier choice

[StndCpp]

Hello to all members,

It is my first post here although I am a reader since 2020 so I would like to start by congratulating all members and founder for this impressive and amazing resource that ASR has become.

So, I have owned a pair of EV Eliminator tops (15 inch driver) for a long time, and I am thinking of repurposing them as speakers for my living room (6.22m * 3.25m rectangular) because they seem to me (not an expert) as half-decent even for this purpose (with the help of some parametric eq maybe), and I already own them, but I would also like to hear your thoughts on their worthiness to use as relatively good fidelity speakers.

The main question I have is about what amplifier to use in this scenario, I want one with passive cooling only and I am kind of running in a budget. First I was thinking that something like an Hypex NC502MP based amplifier would be good enough (I don't need to drive them to full sound output, less than half is probably enough), but given their manual states that "Amplifier continuous
ratings of 250 watts to 400 watts are suggested." I am concerned that the NC502MP's continuous 100w per channel rating is not enought to drive them in an healthy way. Am I wrong? What about the NCx500 or other hi-fi amplifiers you think are more suited to the task?

I might add one or two Rythmik L12 subs later on, and find the best way to integrate them with the rest of the system (currently only have a usb SMSL dac, and listen exclusively to digital files from my windows pc on my current amplifier and passive speakers).

Any feedback about any of the questions and the general idea is welcome.

 

[DVDdoug]

I am concerned that the NC502MP's continuous 100w per channel rating is not enought to drive them in an healthy way.

That depends on how sensitive the speakers are and how loud you listen (and how close you are to the speakers).

The fact that a speaker can handle more more power doesn't mean it needs more power. With pro PA speakers the opposite is often true... Often they are more sensitive/efficient that regular "home" speakers (different trade-offs). Horns are usually more efficient than other designs.

Note that double the power is only 3dB louder and 4 times the power is 6dB louder.

 

[kemmler3D]

Based on a quick glance at the EV datasheet (is this the right one?) they look somewhat decent.

They also state a 99dB/w sensitivity, so unless you are planning a rock concert in your living room I think the NC502MP should be plenty, and a sensible choice.

As for integrating subs, the simplest affordable way I know of is to simply EQ the whole system with a WiiM Mini connected to the DAC. You don't get the benefit of a separate high/lowpass output but you can EQ/room correct the bass response such that integration is mostly done right there.

BTW welcome to ASR!

 

[Bruce Morgen]

The original E-V Eliminators are from the 1960s generation of live sound speakers that emerged after the larger Altec A7s -- the famous "Voice of the Theater" -- which date from the 1940s IIRC. As such, they're quite sensitive and don't require a lot of amp power -- in a typical home listening room, even a sub-$100 "chip amp" would be as adequate AF. However, over the succeeding decades there have been many models that carry the same name, so without more specifics -- e.g. the model number of those woofers -- about what you have it's pretty impossible to offer useful amp advice.

 

[StndCpp]

That depends on how sensitive the speakers are and how loud you listen (and how close you are to the speakers).

The fact that a speaker can handle more more power doesn't mean it needs more power. With pro PA speakers the opposite is often true... Often they are more sensitive/efficient that regular "home" speakers (different trade-offs). Horns are usually more efficient than other designs.

Note that double the power is only 3dB louder and 4 times the power is 6dB louder.

I appreciate your feedback.
I will be listening in my couch at a little less than two meters from them, aligned horizontally, and I am thinking of building a custom wood stand for them in way to have the horns vertically aligned with our ears.

 

[StndCpp]

The original E-V Eliminators are from the 1960s generation of live sound speakers that emerged after the larger Altec A7s -- the famous "Voice of the Theater" -- which date from the 1940s IIRC. As such, they're quite sensitive and don't require a lot of amp power -- in a typical home listening room, even a sub-$100 "chip amp" would be as adequate AF. However, over the succeeding decades there have been many models that carry the same name, so without more specifics -- e.g. the model number of those woofers -- about what you have it's pretty impossible to offer useful amp advice.

I appreciate your feedback.
Mine were bought in the mid/late nineties, I don't know the exact model number, but will check that tomorrow where I have them stored (not in my main home), so you can give more targeted advice.

 

[StndCpp]

Based on a quick glance at the EV datasheet (is this the right one?) they look somewhat decent.

They also state a 99dB/w sensitivity, so unless you are planning a rock concert in your living room I think the NC502MP should be plenty, and a sensible choice.

As for integrating subs, the simplest affordable way I know of is to simply EQ the whole system with a WiiM Mini connected to the DAC. You don't get the benefit of a separate high/lowpass output but you can EQ/room correct the bass response such that integration is mostly done right there.

BTW welcome to ASR!

I appreciate your feedback.
That data sheet is for the "Eliminator i", mine are regular Eliminators, but I don't have the exact model number here.
I think this is the right one, but tomorrow I will check on them to make sure.
Yeah, 100w continuous power seems enough for this space, I was more concerned it could damage the amplifier somehow, or cause distortion.
I would rather an all software only crossover (with a 4 channel dac) but I cant see how that would playout with foobar-wasapi and system-wide non-wasapi use cases, so a hardware solution like a WiiM/minidsp or even something like the Behringer Ultra-Drive Pro DCX2496 might be the best bet.

 

[Clmrt]

Whatever front end you use, it'll need to be quiet. The slightest hiss or noise will creep out. Good voltage up front and adjustable gain on the amps will help. You won't need more than 10-20 watts max so drive the line hard and damp the gain to keep noise at bay.

 

[StndCpp]

Whatever front end you use, it'll need to be quiet. The slightest hiss or noise will creep out. Good voltage up front and adjustable gain on the amps will help. You won't need more than 10-20 watts max so drive the line hard and damp the gain to keep noise at bay.

I appreciate your feedback.
Back in the day I used to run them and their subs thru a very noisy cheap behringer mixer (balanced output) and it was a nightmare, every time a track got silent or even quiet you could hear the horrible noise/hiss. If I connected my denon pro cd players directly to the same amplifier (crest audio vs1500), no noises whatsoever, so I think I know what you are talking about.
Now I am thinking of running my usb SMSL Sanskrit 10th Mk2 directly to the amplifier I choose to buy, or maybe buying a better dac if I feel the need (higher voltage and balanced outputs).

 

[StndCpp]

Whatever front end you use, it'll need to be quiet. The slightest hiss or noise will creep out. Good voltage up front and adjustable gain on the amps will help. You won't need more than 10-20 watts max so drive the line hard and damp the gain to keep noise at bay.

Your words and those from other members inspired me to try them out in my living room with the crap amplifier I have currently in here, a Pioneer A351R (35w if 1% THD is allowed), and even with such a small amount of power they sound good, due to their sensitivity. I still want a better amplifier of course, this sucker has a very poor SINAD.

 

[StndCpp]

The original E-V Eliminators are from the 1960s generation of live sound speakers that emerged after the larger Altec A7s -- the famous "Voice of the Theater" -- which date from the 1940s IIRC. As such, they're quite sensitive and don't require a lot of amp power -- in a typical home listening room, even a sub-$100 "chip amp" would be as adequate AF. However, over the succeeding decades there have been many models that carry the same name, so without more specifics -- e.g. the model number of those woofers -- about what you have it's pretty impossible to offer useful amp advice.

I tried finding the model number, but all I can find is a serial number 9928A0XXX (I replaced the real numbers with X), I am guessing maybe this means 1999 week 28 but it is just a guess that would be coherent with the date of purchase. Also very interesting to know E-V Eliminator was initially made after the Altec A7, I didn't knew about them.

 

[Clmrt]

The great thing about PA speakers (high sensitivity) is that you can pull EQ like crazy to get an ideal house curve and have plenty of headroom left.

The key is to pull down your EQ, no boost. One of the industry's favorite old-school EQ models was from the old UREI company - cut only.

In any case, I'm jealous. Taking advantage of an amp's first few watts opens a sonic door I'd like to explore more. One of my best memories was using a 10 watt amp with old Altecs, sitting close in was pretty magical.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

1999 week 28

That's way too "new" for me to be of any help at all -- sorry!

 

[JSmith]

NC502MP's continuous 100w per channel rating

Don't worry about continuous for 5 mins... that's not real word use.

These babies can pump out over 400W per channel and over 600W in bursts @4 ohm;

Buckeye NC502MP 8-Channel Amp Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Buckeye Hypex NC502MP 8-channel class D amplifier. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $2,295. There is not a whole lot to look at here. Sheet metal is rather thin and fitment not that great. So put it in a cabinet and forget about...

www.audiosciencereview.com

A stereo version will be more than adequate for your usage.


JSmith

 

[kemmler3D]

I appreciate your feedback.
That data sheet is for the "Eliminator i", mine are regular Eliminators, but I don't have the exact model number here.
I think this is the right one, but tomorrow I will check on them to make sure.
Yeah, 100w continuous power seems enough for this space, I was more concerned it could damage the amplifier somehow, or cause distortion.
I would rather an all software only crossover (with a 4 channel dac) but I cant see how that would playout with foobar-wasapi and system-wide non-wasapi use cases, so a hardware solution like a WiiM/minidsp or even something like the Behringer Ultra-Drive Pro DCX2496 might be the best bet.

There are also the various MiniDSP units you can use for this, but they're a little pricey for what they are.

 

[StndCpp]

The great thing about PA speakers (high sensitivity) is that you can pull EQ like crazy to get an ideal house curve and have plenty of headroom left.

The key is to pull down your EQ, no boost. One of the industry's favorite old-school EQ models was from the old UREI company - cut only.

In any case, I'm jealous. Taking advantage of an amp's first few watts opens a sonic door I'd like to explore more. One of my best memories was using a 10 watt amp with old Altecs, sitting close in was pretty magical.

I use my software parametric EQs in they way you describe, I had never heard of UREI they seem nice.
I have almost the opposite best memory, mine is about running these eliminators together with their subs in 4ohms with a 750w per channel amplifier, it was amazing to experience at first.

 

[StndCpp]

There are also the various MiniDSP units you can use for this, but they're a little pricey for what they are.

Yes, its kind of complicated and pricey to get subs integrated in this kind of system, and I don't think the fully analog/passive way is any easier too.
Would really love to do this only with software (4ch dac), but it seems not practical to cover all use cases.

 

[StndCpp]

Don't worry about continuous for 5 mins... that's not real word use.

These babies can pump out over 400W per channel and over 600W in bursts @4 ohm;

Buckeye NC502MP 8-Channel Amp Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Buckeye Hypex NC502MP 8-channel class D amplifier. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $2,295. There is not a whole lot to look at here. Sheet metal is rather thin and fitment not that great. So put it in a cabinet and forget about...

www.audiosciencereview.com

A stereo version will be more than adequate for your usage.


JSmith

Good to know that these modules can go that hard, thats probably what I am buying (NC502MP).

 

[StndCpp]

Well, now that I have tried them for a while in my living room (amplifier does 8Ω 35w/ch @ 1% thd), they are staying even if they are not hi-fi speakers.
I can get a pretty good bass response down to about 45hz with EQ, the directivity is excellent, and they are very linear/neutral with all kinds of music in subjective terms but I would still like amir to test them especially to have the distortion figures.
Their sensitivity is a plus, I don't even feel the need for more power, if it wasn't for my amplifier having terrible SINAD I wouldn't change it maybe.
My wife even likes them in our living room, so they are staying.
I am also thinking of learning more about room correction/measurement, getting a UMIC-1 to better correct via EQ and installing acoustic panels where it is more strategic.
Thank you for all your advice and recommendations.

 

[Clmrt]

Excellent. And cats, too!