Ethernet Input DACs

[watchnerd]

I don't see any reason for Ethernet to be better than wifi. It uses TCP/IP so the link level protocol should be transparent. The same bits are hitting the dac.

Signal reliability if your wifi is flakey / prone to drop-outs.

 

[svart-hvitt]

Correct. Cable run distance is 9m.

Apparently, the Google Chromecast Audio can be connected to Ethernet via a simple kit. I'll try that first and compare to wifi.

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2418159 - see first post.

https://www.amazon.com.au/UGREEN-Network-Adapter-Chromecast-Ethernet/dp/B0773NKLTD

Regarding cable length:

Jenving’s Supra USB cables are of max 15 meters length. The USB cables are certified.
Would such a long USB cable suffice?

http://www.jenving.com/products/view/usb-2.0-a-b-blue-15m-1001907607

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Regarding cable length:

Jenving’s Supra USB cables are of max 15 meters length. The USB cables are certified.
Would such a long USB cable suffice?

http://www.jenving.com/products/view/usb-2.0-a-b-blue-15m-1001907607

Yes, there are also the Corning glass fiber USB 3.0 cables at 10 and 15 meters powered and 30 meters unpowered.

I tried a Corning 10 meter in my system vs. a modest 5 meter metallic USB. It worked fine, but it offered no sonic advantage I could hear.

 

[svart-hvitt]

Yes, there are also the Corning glass fiber USB 3.0 cables at 10 and 15 meters powered and 30 meters unpowered.

I tried a Corning 10 meter in my system vs. a modest 5 meter metallic USB. It worked fine, but it offered no sonic advantage I could hear.

The Corning glass is interesting but it’s not certified USB protocol. Which may be a(n aesthtetic ?) problem for some. I believe the Corning connectors are full of circuitry.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

The Corning glass is interesting but it’s not certified USB protocol. Which may be a(n aesthtetic ?) problem for some. I believe the Corning connectors are full of circuitry.

I was incorrect earlier. All require self powered peripherals. And, they go up to 50 meters, although not inexpensively..

The only added circuitry, AFAIK and aside from the obvious electrical signal to/from optical conversion, is a builtin single port USB hub at the receiving end, making the connectors Type A to A. So, an A-B adaptor is normally required. The cable contains thin copper USB power leads for the hub, but they apparently restrict power to peripherals. However, the normal sensing of the USB peripheral connection still works.

https://www.corning.com/microsites/coc/ocbc/Documents/CNT-009-AEN.pdf

 

[gvl]

I don't see any reason for Ethernet to be better than wifi. It uses TCP/IP so the link level protocol should be transparent. The same bits are hitting the dac.

Do we know it's not using UDP?

 

[Superdad]

Regarding cable length:
Jenving’s Supra USB cables are of max 15 meters length. The USB cables are certified.

Good luck getting audio over that length without massive glitches!

 

[gvl]

Given there is a decent selection for USB over Ethernet solutions I'm not sure why would anyone try to use USB-only gizmos to increase cable reach for audio.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Good luck getting audio over that length without massive glitches!

A 10 meter Corning glass USB worked into my DAC with no glitches whatsoever.

A year or two ago, some Dutch guy in a CA Forum thread complained bitterly about his Exasound DAC delivering horrible, broken sound via USB. Exasound was unable to pinpoint the problem. They gave him a new, upgraded DAC, but his problem persisted. The problem could not be replicated on the old DAC back at Exasound. They were stumped.

After I posed some probing questions, it was revealed that someone had sold him a fancy 10 meter, metallic USB cable. I told him that was obviously out of spec. He tried a 10 meter Corning and the problem disappeared.

 

[svart-hvitt]

Good luck getting audio over that length without massive glitches!

This 15 m cable is made by Jenving, an audio oriented company in Sweden, making certified cables to specifications. If they say it works, it works.

Maybe @amirm should measure it...

 

[RayDunzl]

A 10 meter Corning glass USB worked into my DAC with no glitches whatsoever.

Singlemode Glass Fiber can carry a gigabit signal 60 miles or so before amplification and dispersion correction is necessary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_Carrier_transmission_rates

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber-optic_communication

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

This 15 m cable is made by Jenving, an audio oriented company in Sweden, making certified cables to specifications. If they say it works, it works.

Maybe @amirm should measure it...

I believe you and them to the point that it might be worth a try in some systems, with a money back guarantee of course.

 

[Superdad]

This 15 m cable is made by Jenving, an audio oriented company in Sweden, making certified cables to specifications. If they say it works, it works.

USB 2.0 high-speed spec max is 5 meters! And isochronous asynchronous audio is even more sensitive than that. Jenving is a fine company, but they can't rewrite the spec or bend physics.

From the USB.org site:
"The cable length was limited by a cable delay spec of 26ns to allow for reflections to settle at the transmitter before the next bit was sent. Since USB uses source termination and voltage-mode drivers, this has to be the case, otherwise reflections can pile up and blow the driver. This does not mean the line voltage has fully settled by the end of the bit; with worst-case undertermination. However, there's been enough damping by the end of the bit that the reflection amplitude has been reduced to manageable levels. The low speed cable length was limited to 18ns to keep transmission line effects from impacting low speed signals."

 

[Superdad]

A 10 meter Corning glass USB worked into my DAC with no glitches whatsoever.

But a Corning optical is not a passive cable. There is full protocol conversion taking place at both ends of that "cable." It's only viewed as a cable because they shrunk the circuitry down small enough to fit in housings at both ends of the optical and copper line. And of course the thing imposes sever limitations on 5VBUS usage.

 

[Superdad]

Latest 505 model apparently is Roon ready although the manual doesn't go into any detail on it.

Not currently. Roon support is something they have said will be added in a future firmware update.

 

[svart-hvitt]

Shall we (i.e. I...) buy one Jenving Supra USB A-B 15 m for Amir to measure?

Is it of any interest?

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

But a Corning optical is not a passive cable. There is full protocol conversion taking place at both ends of that "cable." It's only viewed as a cable because they shrunk the circuitry down small enough to fit in housings at both ends of the optical and copper line. And of course the thing imposes sever limitations on 5VBUS usage.

Yes, of course. But, what is your point? Why does a USB cable have to be passive as long as it works in doing the job?

 

[Superdad]

Yes, of course. But, what is your point? Why does a USB cable have to be passive as long as it works in doing the job?

When is a cable not a cable? When it is an active device with circuity that does protocol conversions, affects signal integrity, and changes the way a user has to think about using it with normal USB devices (due to 5VBUS limitations). It might as well be boxes at both ends.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

When is a cable not a cable? When it is an active device with circuity that does protocol conversions, affects signal integrity, and changes the way a user has to think about using it with normal USB devices (due to 5VBUS limitations). It might as well be boxes at both ends.

Some may care about exquisitely proper, precise and narrow definitions of "cables". Others, like me don't care, as long as they perform the communications function for which they were intended. To us, they are only a means to a functional goal. How they work is not a major concern, as long as they do the job. If it looks and acts just like a passive cable, why the hair splitting?

So, how do these non-passive cables, like Corning, affect signal integrity? Do you happen to have measurements indicating they do not? We all would love to see them.

How do they affect "the way a user has to think about it", God forbid, other than having to use a USB A-B adaptor, like any other USB extension cable? I note that the now infamous Regen also required one.