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Ethan Winer Builds a Wire Null Tester

Kal Rubinson

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Paul begins his commentary with: "Since we know that changing input cables—a high-end version vs. a dimestore copy—on a power amplifier in a highly resolving system is easy to hear, the null test should show the difference." (Underline added for emphasis.) That initial premise indicates his bias. Where is the proof that the premise is true or is he really positing something based on his bias?

He concludes his commentary with: "I haven’t the time nor the interest in performing these tests with any scientific rigor, but perhaps someone else wants to grab the flag and climb the mountain. It would have to be performed on a system where we actually do hear a difference. " (Underline added for emphasis.) This last pointiindicates his unwillingness to examine his presumption.
 

DonH56

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"It would have to be performed on a system where we actually do hear a difference. "

It also provides the usual outs: he can always say you don't hear well enough to hear the difference and/or your system is not good enough to present the difference.
 

tmtomh

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I think McGowan actually proposes something potentially reasonable here: Measure the output from the speakers.

Of course the margin for error is greater: You'd have to record multiple run-throughs of the identical sound source with the same interconnects first, to get a baseline measurement of what the variation level is.

Then, you could swap interconnects, run several more trials with the new interconnects, and compare. If you could find a statistically significant difference between the recordings of each interconnect - in other words, if the difference between the interconnects were greater than the differences between different trial runs of the same interconnects, then you could claim to have found evidence for a difference.

However, neither McGowan nor his allies are going to do that of course - here's the most telling part of his post:

"I haven’t the time nor the interest in performing these tests with any scientific rigor, but perhaps someone else wants to grab the flag and climb the mountain. It would have to be performed on a system where we actually do hear a difference."

It's the same old BS: (1) "I'm going to forever propose scenarios that might explain why the products I sell/buy might sound better to me, but I'm never going to actually determine if these scenarios are true"; and (2) If you can't support my claims, it's not because my claims lack support but rather because your system/ears are insufficient."

It's so very tiresome.

(EDIT: Didn't realize I wasn't looking at the most recent posts; I see some others already made some of these points above. Thanks, and I agree!)
 

GGroch

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I think you could use the existing null tester to take into account any hitherto unknown and mysterious speaker properties.

What if you inserted the null tester between 2 speakers using a Hafler circuit. Put the magic audio cable on one channel, standard cable on the other of a stereo amp. Then play a mono signal, and measure any current/signal flow between the 2 channels. You could just put a speaker between the channels.

If their is no current or signal, (or if the speaker is silent) then the cables have no impact on the sound, measured after the speakers.
 

invaderzim

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I think McGowan has no interest in psychology as an academic discipline. So he doesn’t ask if differences are real (physics) or perceived by the complex which is man.

He has no interest in the scientific method either.

No wonder he has a large group of followers.

It is the combination of "if you hear a difference then there is a difference" and "if you don't hear a difference then either your system isn't good enough or your ears aren't good enough. I really do feel sorry for you that you are missing out".

<snip> Paul goes further saying he regularly does this...and huge differences are measurable...even using the mic on his I-Phone.
<snip>

And I had tea with bigfoot last night but didn't bother to document it in any way so you'll just have to take my word on it.

<snip> He concludes his commentary with: "I haven’t the time nor the interest in performing these tests with any scientific rigor, <snip>

Which is fine, except he has lots of time and interest in perpetuating the myths about the same subject. You can't have it both ways by spending all sorts of effort convincing people they make a difference and then say you don't have the time to invest any effort into testing it. Then it just becomes "I don't want to be proven wrong because I sell expensive power cables and my friends (and likely me someday) sell crazy expensive interconnects and speaker wire."

Reading through this, I don't think PS Audio will ever see a hard earned dollar from me.

I used to enjoy his videos but I have to agree with you on this.
 
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Frank Dernie

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I rejoice in the fact that my ears are so leaden and my system so unresolving that I can't hear the difference between the sensible cables I have tried. It saves me a fortune.
It is a pity they are not leaden enough for me to fail the hear the difference between speakers, recorders, microphones, microphone position and record players :(
 

Blumlein 88

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Look McGowan is full of it. If you want to test the whole system response, the place to do it is the speaker terminals. The speakers output is due to the speaker input. If there is a sound difference in the air, there is a signal difference at the input. Testing with a microphone is fine, but you've introduced additional imprecision and sources of interfering noise. If your claim is there are things we can't measure, but we can hear this is a stupid suggestion. You've just suggested a far less precise method of measurement. I don't think this is without forethought on his part to misdirect. He's suggesting a much more muddled testing regime (which he won't deign to do) because it will provide cover for his BS. I've given such people the benefit of the doubt, but the more direct information you hear from him it is obvious he doesn't deserve it. He knows what he is doing and that is spouting misinformation and attempting to muddy the water.

A company making many products, supposedly investing much time to improve them and having a highly resolving reference system, but one that has a principal that easily sees the difference with iPhone recordings, but can't be bothered to go further? Yeah, right. Can I make you an offer on that Golden Gate bridge you own? Oh and if we have trouble measuring these differences how is it the iPhone easily picks it up? His line of bull isn't even consistent with itself.
 
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invaderzim

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<snip> Oh and if we have trouble measuring these differences how is it the iPhone easily picks it up? His line of bull isn't even consistent with itself.

07b608a06d5401301d7c001dd8b71c47
 

solderdude

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I think you could use the existing null tester to take into account any hitherto unknown and mysterious speaker properties.

What if you inserted the null tester between 2 speakers using a Hafler circuit. Put the magic audio cable on one channel, standard cable on the other of a stereo amp. Then play a mono signal, and measure any current/signal flow between the 2 channels. You could just put a speaker between the channels.

If their is no current or signal, (or if the speaker is silent) then the cables have no impact on the sound, measured after the speakers.

Yes, one could.
Grab the flag and climb the mountain !
 

tmtomh

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Look McGowan is full of it. If you want to test the whole system response, the place to do it is the speaker terminals. The speakers output is due to the speaker input. If there is a sound difference in the air, there is a signal difference at the input. Testing with a microphone is fine, but you've introduced additional imprecision and sources of interfering noise. If your claim is there are things we can't measure, but we can hear this is a stupid suggestion. You've just suggested a far less precise method of measurement. I don't think this is without forethought on his part to misdirect. He's suggesting a much more muddled testing regime (which he won't deign to do) because it will provide cover for his BS. I've given such people the benefit of the doubt, but the more direct information you hear from him it is obvious he doesn't deserve it. He knows what he is doing and that is spouting misinformation and attempting to muddy the water.

Spot on. The speakers-to-microphone piece is part of his proposal purely to preserve some wiggle room for what he claims to hear. It has zero scientific validity, and as you note, it introduces a level of imprecision that makes it much harder, perhaps impossible, to draw any firm conclusions from such a test. And that's precisely what he wants, both because it preserves his ability to sell product, and also IMHO because he does genuinely believe what he's saying, at least to an extent.
 
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JJB70

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I know I probably sound like a record with a scratch, but Paul McGowan is an artist when it comes to peddling BS and snake oil, as much as I hate what he is trying to do I have to take my hat off to the way he can carry off that avuncular and eminently reasonable delivery style he has.
 

Killingbeans

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Spot on. The speakers-to-microphone piece in his proposal purely to preserve some wiggle room for what he claims to hear. It has zero scientific validity, and as you note, it introduces a level of imprecision that makes it much harder, perhaps impossible, to draw any firm conclusions from such a test. And that's precisely what he wants, both because it preserves his ability to sell product, and also IMHO because he does genuinely believe what he's saying, at least to an extent.

Yes, even if a near infallible test was designed and carried out in a near perfect anechoic chamber, he'd still claim it was somehow faulty.
 

jsrtheta

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I know I probably sound like a record with a scratch, but Paul McGowan is an artist when it comes to peddling BS and snake oil, as much as I hate what he is trying to do I have to take my hat off to the way he can carry off that avuncular and eminently reasonable delivery style he has.

About 20 years ago I bought a PS Audio Ultralink II, their totl DAC. I raced home with it from Denver up into the mountains, hooked it up, started a disc and...nothing. No sound at all. I took the top off the thing (like I had any idea what I was looking for), didn't see anything amiss, and put the top back on. It worked perfectly.

A couple of years later, I was in a shop in Boulder, looking at a used PS Audio preamp. I asked to hear it, they wired it up, and - no sound. The salesman was mortified, but I just said, "Try taking the top off and then putting it back on." He looked at me like I was insane, but went ahead, took the top off, and then put it back on. And it worked fine.
 
D

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I know I probably sound like a record with a scratch, but Paul McGowan is an artist when it comes to peddling BS and snake oil, as much as I hate what he is trying to do I have to take my hat off to the way he can carry off that avuncular and eminently reasonable delivery style he has.
I have to plus one on that. He has the comfortable, conversational, grandfatherly shtick pretty much perfected. Even if you're skeptical to begin with, you get sort of taken in and find yourself following him down the path for a while and being entertained by it all. Only later, when you reflect on what he said, you think to yourself, WTF!

Dave.
 
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