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Ethan Winer Builds a Wire Null Tester

GGroch

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......Those CLAIMING they can hear differences must do so under controlled and blind conditions that these differences exist without a shadow of a doubt.......

Isn't the burden of delivering proof up to the one making claims ?
Yes.
Blind testing is, as Ethan points out, the "Gold Standard' of proof in all other areas of science.

Blind tests allow you to change just 1 factor in the chain (in this case the device that is being tested) and eliminate other factors that could impact the results (in this case the knowledge of what is being tested...along with preconceptions, and expectations of the listener).

How could it be that in all of science, it is only in audio that blind tests are not valid? If unknown factors exist that impact audio perception...blind tests would reveal that. They do not.

Delivering scientific proof is especially required of those who not only make claims...but profit from them.

The PSAudio Accessories page includes Audiophile AC power receptacles ($50-$400), AC power cables ($129 to...well if you have to ask), and Noise Harvesters ($99-$400). Any impact these devices have on the final results (the amplifier's or speakers output) could easily be measured, or perceptually tested in statistically valid blind tests. None have been.
 
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Hey all,

Popping my post cherry, couldn't resist but chime in on this one. This man needs his own channel , specifically to refute PSAudio's (BS Audio? :p) claims. (He has openly challenged Paul at PS)

His setup at home, from viewing his YouTube videos, is normal consumer gear. He is all about room treatment to get your system to sound better. Which I can accept way more than changing cables (quality ones) as an EQ device.

Thanks for letting me be here. Great stuff. I'm just as guilty for falling into the Audiophile pitfalls and traps. But, thanks to your site, that was like the antidote to all the stuff I was hearing and scratching my head about. Thanks again.
 

March Audio

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I would have to say that I am inclined to side with Paul McGowan who expresses a more rational and balanced point of view. He allows for the possibility that there are things beyond our understanding at this point in time, that we cannot measure and don't even know to look for. Any sane, rational and balanced thinker would concur.

Ethan Winer on the other hand has fallen into the trap of thinking that science has all the answers and that everything is measurable. How do you measure something if you don't even know that it exists and are too dogmatic in your view to even consider the possibility of it's existence.
There isn't really much rational or balanced in ignoring known and proven electrical theory.

Domestic audio electronics is the only sphere of electronics where there is allegedly "unknown stuff" going on. The only reason this happens is because its a marketing strategy to put doubt in the mind of potential (technically uninformed) purchasers to the end of persuading them to buy (usually) excessively costly products that provide no performance benefit.
 
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GGroch

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I think there are 2 reasons belief in "Unknown Stuff" is so prevalent in consumer audio.

Marketing to technically uninformed purchasers is one of them.

Just as important, is a lack of understanding of psycho-acoustics...how humans perceive sound and judge differences.

Audiophiles make decisions on upgrades with no benefit because they and their friends all clearly hear the improvement with their own ears.

The best explanation I have ever heard on this is in a 2009 "Audio Myths" conference with Ethan and another frequent contributor J.J. Johnston. The entire YouTube clip is fascinating to me, (I imagine veterans here have seen it). If you have not watch at least minutes 1:00 through minute 5:00.

Welcome Deacon Blues! The 1st step in recovery from Audiophile Pseudo-Science is admitting you have a problem. The above clip convinced me that ALL humans have this problem....because of how our brains filter down the megabytes of information we receive from our ears into the bits of information we can actually process.
 
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  • PCOCC single crystal construction
  • 8 gauge power cable
  • Quad shielded low noise
  • Hollow tube conductors for treble performance
  • Rectangular conductors for midrange performance
  • Multiple gauge conductors for bass performance
  • Gold plated connectors
  • Welded connector to conductor
  • Quiet for digital
  • Unrestricted for analog
That is in the description for PS Audio's power cable. Now, what could these benefits be? I think the main problem we're facing as audiophiles, is audio has gotten so good, (Some) companies (and people who desperately need to 'upgrade' something) are latching onto anything and everything that you can sell with some sense of pseudo-scientific explanation for how it may work, and benefit you.
 
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Soniclife

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I think there are 2 reasons belief in "Unknown Stuff" is so prevalent in consumer audio.

Marketing to technically uninformed purchasers is one of them.

Just as important, is a lack of understanding of psycho-acoustics...how humans perceive sound and judge differences.
I'll add a third category, far too many hifi journalists colluding with the industry, and not being journalists.
 

amirm

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What is fascinating here is that audiophiles and people like Paul take a position that requires them to have knowledge beyond the entire domain of science. How else can you say the ear hears something science can't explain? Or that the hardware has fidelity characteristics that science can't show how to measure? Yet the camp universally in the domain of lay person in both categories. They can't have it both ways.
 

RayDunzl

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(my conclusion per above discussion)

So, I suppose we have to ferret out those Dark Electrons, the Dark Amperage, the resulting Dark Fields, not to mention the interaction of the Speaker and air molecules with the Dark Matter we already "know" pervades our listening rooms.

Stuff like this is readily measurable but even there they won't post measurements.
One vendor had measurements and a nice video concerning (as I read it) how quickly his power cable conducts. I stared at it and found the effect was active over the first (I forget) few (5? 20?) microseconds or so on his test jig.

I then noted that effect would be swamped by the gradual (at those time intervals) forward biasing and gradual ramp-up of current flow through the rectifier diodes as to render the possible improvement, uh, dubious.

Who was that? Let me try and find that again...
 

RayDunzl

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Shunyata and their DTD test (or whatever it was called)?
I think that was it, your forgetfulness is not as well developed as mine. Give it a few more years...

I don't see the video in the Shunyata collection, though.
 
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RayDunzl

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Blumlein 88

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RayDunzl

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Re: Shunyata Power Cable...

Assuming:
  • 60hz mains
  • Transformer secondary creates 50V DC power supply - roughly a 100W 8 Ohm amplifier ( taking into account the capacitor drawdown to 40V below)
  • 1V forward bias is needed to turn on the rectifier diode
  • Large draw on the power supply caps - say, 10V ripple voltage (to determine where on the sine wave the rectifier turns on)
  • Diode turn-on begins at 40V

The rectifier diode needs about 84 microseconds to fully conduct from the transformer secondary toward the filter capacitors. A "faster" power cable is throttled by the rectifier.

1547151553555.png


With lighter load on the amp, the rectifier turns on at a higher voltage (less ripple in the caps) at an even flatter portion of the wave (takes longer for the rectifier to fully turn on)
 
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Blumlein 88

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Re: Shunyata Power Cable...

Assuming:
  • 60hz mains
  • Transformer secondary creates 50V DC power supply - roughly a 100W 8 Ohm amplifier ( taking into account the capacitor drawdown to 40V below)
  • 1V forward bias is needed to turn on the rectifier diode
  • Large draw on the power supply caps - say, 10V ripple voltage (to determine where on the sine wave the rectifier turns on)
  • Diode turn-on begins at 40V

The rectifier diode needs about 84 microseconds to fully conduct from the transformer secondary toward the filter capacitors. A "faster" power cable is throttled by the rectifier.

View attachment 20176

With lighter load on the amp, the rectifier turns on at a higher voltage (less ripple in the caps) at an even flatter portion of the wave (takes longer for the rectifier to fully turn on)
All that means is you need to buy faster audiophile diodes to get the full benefits of cable. :p
 

RayDunzl

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I'll just replace the diodes with some directional wire...
 

JJB70

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If expensive cables, power chords, power supplies etc make such a big difference then the purveyors would surely have no objection to setting up level matched double blind testing? Discerning differences in level matched double blind testing is hard enough for amplifiers and DACs where there are very clear measurable differences (but generally audio transparency) never mind cables etc.

The Paul McGowan response to Ethan Winer was deliberately disingenuous in trying to answer completely different questions whilst studiously avoiding Ethan's arguments whilst presenting it all as a rebuttal, it was all very well done, very clever and very specious. Or as I might say, it was a clever bit of bollox.
 

SIY

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Everyone knows that blind testing is invalid. Where’s that Jakob guy when we need him?:D
 

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