Essential technical specs for cd transport ONLY

[AnalogSteph]

Indeed, not only does EAC support ripping in safe mode (which was the only way to be decently sure you had a perfect rip before the days of internet databases, and more or less the program's claim to fame to begin with), you can even attempt to repair a damaged rip using CUETools assuming the disc is present in the online CTDB. I've had to do this once when getting a replacement CD would have been too much of a hassle.... actually twice I think, the other was a CD where one master had an audible glitch (digital transfer error) in one track but another didn't while being identical otherwise. (That was from the time when they would have been sending U-matic tapes across the pond for creating the local masters.)

A lot of modern(ish) optical drives aren't bad CD rippers at all, they're just often very cheaply built, much like floppy drives were by the late '90s. I've seen my fair share develop issues just due to "old age" (that being more than a decade). Bad bearings, bad belts, and electronic issues that I guess are a mix of bad caps and dodgy microswitches. I have a HL-DT-ST DH10N in here that seems to have gotten confused about whether it's closed in recent times, I think that's a contact issue in the switch for tray closed detection. I also managed to wreck the bearings in an older LG of mine with an eccentric CD once. In terms of slim drives, the Toshiba / Samsung TS-U633 seems to be a solid one.

 

[deprogrammed]

Some are better than others at reading disk. There is a test. Pierre Verany Test CD. An Emotiva did really well.
From link below.
The ERC-2's error correction/concealment was the best I have encountered in more than 20 years of testing CD players. It played every track on the Pierre Verany Test CD, which has calibrated gaps in its data spiral, without dropouts, glitches, or any errors being flagged in the digital output stream. This includes the torture test, in which 4mm gaps in the data spiral are combined with minimum track pitch. The only oddity I found was that the Validity flag in the datastream's auxiliary code was permanently set to a value of 1, which suggests corrupt data. However, this didn't appear to affect the integrity of the ERC-2's digital output.

This is from John Atkinson from Stereophile.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/emotiva-erc-2-cd-player-measurements

 

[jsrtheta]

I still keep my EAD T-1000 CD transport because I purchased it .... 26 years ago.
Otherwise I wouldn't worry as @q3cpma said.

I can relate. I still use my PS Audio Lambda 2, if only because it refuses to die. Plus, I like AES/EBU, though not for any rational reason.

 

[kchap]

EAC (ripping program) tests CD drive and sets some configuration/parameters accordingly, the read offset correction. iirc...it does some reference lookup, based on the type or some CD hardware identifier. (Sorry, vague, it's been a while.) Probably dbPoweramp does it too.
And re-read / test/verify.
I wouldn't use anything else.

Not that that helps you if you want to play CDs though.

I have some or other CD writer...but EAC seemed to think that my laptop CD drive was better. - Slightly, somewhat.

Indeed, not only does EAC support ripping in safe mode (which was the only way to be decently sure you had a perfect rip before the days of internet databases, and more or less the program's claim to fame to begin with), you can even attempt to repair a damaged rip using CUETools assuming the disc is present in the online CTDB. I've had to do this once when getting a replacement CD would have been too much of a hassle.... actually twice I think, the other was a CD where one master had an audible glitch (digital transfer error) in one track but another didn't while being identical otherwise. (That was from the time when they would have been sending U-matic tapes across the pond for creating the local masters.)

A lot of modern(ish) optical drives aren't bad CD rippers at all, they're just often very cheaply built, much like floppy drives were by the late '90s. I've seen my fair share develop issues just due to "old age" (that being more than a decade). Bad bearings, bad belts, and electronic issues that I guess are a mix of bad caps and dodgy microswitches. I have a HL-DT-ST DH10N in here that seems to have gotten confused about whether it's closed in recent times, I think that's a contact issue in the switch for tray closed detection. I also managed to wreck the bearings in an older LG of mine with an eccentric CD once. In terms of slim drives, the Toshiba / Samsung TS-U633 seems to be a solid one.

Yes, I also use EAC. The problem is when the progress bars/icons change from green to red; C2 errors! It's only happened a few times. I was hoping to find that drive that is far superior to others.

I found this reference but, it is already a couple of years old:

https://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showth...-Accuracy-2019&p=192485&viewfull=1#post192485​

I think my best strategy is to accrue a collection of drives and try different drives when I have a problem CD.

Thanks all for the feedback.

 

[restorer-john]

Some are better than others at reading disk. There is a test. Pierre Verany Test CD. An Emotiva did really well.
From link below.
The ERC-2's error correction/concealment was the best I have encountered in more than 20 years of testing CD players. It played every track on the Pierre Verany Test CD, which has calibrated gaps in its data spiral, without dropouts, glitches, or any errors being flagged in the digital output stream. This includes the torture test, in which 4mm gaps in the data spiral are combined with minimum track pitch. The only oddity I found was that the Validity flag in the datastream's auxiliary code was permanently set to a value of 1, which suggests corrupt data. However, this didn't appear to affect the integrity of the ERC-2's digital output.

This is from John Atkinson from Stereophile.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/emotiva-erc-2-cd-player-measurements

John Atkinson would know that the CIRC/EFM used in the Compact Disc format is capable of completely and precisely correcting up to what equates to 2.4mm of linear burst data loss, but after that, interpolation kicks in. At 4mm, the system is just guessing and the data may not be corrupt per-se, but it not correct, either.

I have the Pierre Verany test set, along with several other indusrtry standard test discs.

 

[Mart68]

I can't imagine a good excuse for really worrying about this and not ripping your CDs to get rid of all those problems inherent to hardware based, real time CD playback.

Well for me primarily because I really can't be arsed to go through the process of copying hundreds of CDs, and then making backups onto another hard drive in case it fails and I have to start over.

Also I find picking an album from a shelf and inserting it into a slot and pressing play a lot simpler than having to boot up a computer and trawl through menus. And there really aren't any problems inherent to real-time CD playback. If the CD isn't damaged then it's fine, and on the very rare occasion that does happen I just buy another copy. They're no longer expensive and arrive in the post one or two days after ordering.

 

[restorer-john]

I can't imagine a good excuse for really worrying about this and not ripping your CDs to get rid of all those problems inherent to hardware based, real time CD playback.

The thing is, there are absolutely no problems whatsoever "inherent" to hardware based, real time CD playback. In fact, there never have been, since day one.

 

[q3cpma]

The thing is, there are absolutely no problems whatsoever "inherent" to hardware based, real time CD playback. In fact, there never have been, since day one.

Well, probably, I should have added "hypothetical", as OP and seemingly a lot of people (audiophiles, I guess) worry about this stuff.

 

[kchap]

Well for me primarily because I really can't be arsed to go through the process of copying hundreds of CDs, and then making backups onto another hard drive in case it fails and I have to start over.

Also I find picking an album from a shelf and inserting it into a slot and pressing play a lot simpler than having to boot up a computer and trawl through menus. And there really aren't any problems inherent to real-time CD playback. If the CD isn't damaged then it's fine, and on the very rare occasion that does happen I just buy another copy. They're no longer expensive and arrive in the post one or two days after ordering.

I have nothing against playing CDs but for me I enjoyed the learning experience of ripping my CDs. I use a dedicated RPI streamer. I turn it on the morning, it chugs away in the lounge room while I work on at my desk. Maybe it's playing ripped CDs in a queue I've created on the fly or maybe I'm listening to radio; all the radio stations now provide their broadcast as a streaming service.

If someone rings I can use phone, PC or tablet to mute the the streamer or stop it. In the evenings I can sit down for an hour or two and listen without distraction. Setting up the streamer revitalized my interest in music and audio.

I do concede backup is a concern. I have 2 NAS and a PC all with a copies of my music and I would never sell my CD's, they are my last resort.

 

[Tangband]

What are the essential technical specs for evaluating a cd transport Only? Goal is to play Redbook cd disks.
I imagine just insuring bit perfect capture of data can be done with any of three used mechanisms: a slot loader, sliding tray loader, or top down mechanism(ie CDM4). Are they all technically accurate and no real differences, like DACs today? There job is to read and capture a digital signal and pass along to a DAC.

If highend results is the goal:

1. Galvanic isolation on the spdif output ( transformer is needed, or toslink )
2. No SRC inside the transport - the output should be 16 bit 44,1 KHz , nothing else.
3. low noice regulators feeding the clock that you want to be of good quality.

Really good cd-transports do sound better than inferior ones, and the less good transports gonna sound worse than the good transport even if you use the worlds best DAC.
Or , the really good transports with a simple dac will still sound very good.

We have done extensive tests in the early 2000:ies with a Linn Ikemi transport ( good ) and a Samsung dvd player ( bad )
Both were bitcorrect putting out 16 bit 44,1 kHz, but the Linn was clearly better sounding, depending on galvanic isolation of the digital output and good clocking.
If you dont believe in this - do your own testing.
Modern digital transports like USB have other issues, making them sometimes sound somewhat different, but its almost always one or more of the three failure things I mentioned above, thats the reason for the transports to sound differently.

Its not unusual for computer transports with inbuilt digital outputs, to fail on all three points, and with USB output you must take care of another problem- the 8 kHz USB packet noise.
You can use xmos 208 and other microchips for that.
Read about it here:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../8khz-usb-noise-how-do-i-get-rid-of-it.10211/

 

[Victor BR]

CDT-8 Pro​

EUR 995.00
The NuPrime CDT-8 Pro is a highly accurate professional music CD transport with powerful DSP-based decoder that provides all Red Book error-correction capabilities with master-clock control of the entire decoding system, thus lowering jitter significantly. The transport’s single speed minimizes vibration and unbalanced discs. A selectable sampling rate converter (SRC) samples the CD format to a higher sampling rate (up to PCM 24-bit/768kHz and DSD256) with ultra-low jitter and distortion.

- ERROR CORRECTION
- MASTER CLOCK CONTROL LOWERING JITTER
- SINGLE SPEED MINIMIZE VIBRATION
- UPSAMPLING TO 24/768 PCM OR DSD256

What you guys think about these capabilities? Will make a difference when connected to a good DAC with upsampling capabilities too?

 

[jsrtheta]

CDT-8 Pro​

EUR 995.00
The NuPrime CDT-8 Pro is a highly accurate professional music CD transport with powerful DSP-based decoder that provides all Red Book error-correction capabilities with master-clock control of the entire decoding system, thus lowering jitter significantly. The transport’s single speed minimizes vibration and unbalanced discs. A selectable sampling rate converter (SRC) samples the CD format to a higher sampling rate (up to PCM 24-bit/768kHz and DSD256) with ultra-low jitter and distortion.

- ERROR CORRECTION
- MASTER CLOCK CONTROL LOWERING JITTER
- SINGLE SPEED MINIMIZE VIBRATION
- UPSAMPLING TO 24/768 PCM OR DSD256

What you guys think about these capabilities? Will make a difference when connected to a good DAC with upsampling capabilities too?

I think I'd need to see some DBTs showing any of this is audible in the least. Because I see no reason it will sound any different from another transport or even a CD player used as a transport only. And I've owned well over 10 transports of different manufacture.

 

[Count Arthur]

Ripping cd to digital files degrades fidelity.

I agree, that's why I us a microscope to read the pits on the CD, then type out the ones and zeros and save the file to a hard drive.

 

[jsrtheta]

I agree, that's why I us a microscope to read the pits on the CD, then type out the ones and zeros and save the file to a hard drive.

To take a line from Aczel, it's a quest to make the 1s more 1-ish, and the 0s more 0-ish.

 

[Harmonie]

I agree, that's why I us a microscope to read the pits on the CD, then type out the ones and zeros and save the file to a hard drive.

To take a line from Aczel, it's a quest to make the 1s more 1-ish, and the 0s more 0-ish.

Yet ...
Isn't it sad to narrow down the whole world to just 0 and 1 ?
It's just like answering all questions with a succession of Yes and No or White or Black.

 

[jsrtheta]

Yet ...
Isn't it sad to narrow down the whole world to just 0 and 1 ?
It's just like answering all questions with a succession of Yes and No or White or Black.

Just put on a disc and enjoy. Isn't that the ultimate goal?

 

[escksu]

What are the essential technical specs for evaluating a cd transport Only? Goal is to play Redbook cd disks.
I imagine just insuring bit perfect capture of data can be done with any of three used mechanisms: a slot loader, sliding tray loader, or top down mechanism(ie CDM4). Are they all technically accurate and no real differences, like DACs today? There job is to read and capture a digital signal and pass along to a DAC.

Some transports are extremely particular about disc condition and can't read those that are moderately scratched or misalignment etc.... Some are ok with them. But no way to know. OF course, some are less prone to skipping due to vibrations etc...

Unfortunately, you won't know these specs. Can only know them through reviews where they did roundups or tests on reading damaged discs.

 

[escksu]

Ripping cd to digital files degrades fidelity.

I buy a lot of cheap cds from people like you, thanks.

Yes and no. It depends alot on the condition of the disc and the drive and also your ripping speed and even the software. It is entirely possible to have a 100% rip.

 

[Freeway]

Some are better than others at reading disk. There is a test. Pierre Verany Test CD. An Emotiva did really well.
From link below.
The ERC-2's error correction/concealment was the best I have encountered in more than 20 years of testing CD players. It played every track on the Pierre Verany Test CD, which has calibrated gaps in its data spiral, without dropouts, glitches, or any errors being flagged in the digital output stream. This includes the torture test, in which 4mm gaps in the data spiral are combined with minimum track pitch. The only oddity I found was that the Validity flag in the datastream's auxiliary code was permanently set to a value of 1, which suggests corrupt data. However, this didn't appear to affect the integrity of the ERC-2's digital output.

This is from John Atkinson from Stereophile.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/emotiva-erc-2-cd-player-measurements

Thanks for that. My ERC-2 is near a decade old now. Works fine. Sounds fine.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Yes and no. It depends alot on the condition of the disc and the drive and also your ripping speed and even the software. It is entirely possible to have a 100% rip.

Indeed rip with E.A.C. or software with similar error correcting, and you'll get a clean copy for sure.

Exact Audio Copy

Exact Audio Copy is a so called audio grabber for CDs using standard CD and DVD-ROM drives. The main differences

www.exactaudiocopy.de